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Price seems high ($357/night?) considering the lack of hotel amenities and the glut of private home/condo Super Bowl rentals on the market in South Fla right now. The only way this deal will happen is if Jets play Vikings. Otherewise the demand won’t be there.
I guess desperate times call for desperate measures. Be careful in the tenant screening process. And get a big deposit. Lucas I;m sure your friends are legit but I’d be very skeptical doing this if I was coming in from out of town for the game. Plenty of scam artists are seeing $$$.
I’m sure the owner has gotten all the requisite approvals from his condo assn for short term rentals that are surely prohibited in the condo docs. haha.
Lucas was promoting annual rentals last week—now down to weekly—wonder what is next. Fortune House is only weekly rental in that area I know of.
Putting this on Craigslist would have been bad enough, but for a Realtor ™ to be pushing a weekly rental that’s almost assuredly a violation of the condo rules is beyond questionable. (I assume this is why Lucas didn’t name the building.)
The Building is “The Mark” !
Illegal rental? What do the condo docs say about weekly rentals?
Of course its a violation of the condo docs but of course there’s no enforcement either so what’s the risk. The associations have much greater problems (solvency) than to crack down on this stuff.
Also, Super Bowl tourists want to stay on Fort Lauderdale Beach or South Beach. They don’t want to be on Brickell.
SuperBowl tourists want to stay in Pace Park. Everyone knows that.
I heard …”The ACE” is selling his 92 Chevrolet Corsica..I wonder if he realizes that he could advertise it here??
southbeachsand said: “SuperBowl tourists want to stay in Pace Park. Everyone knows that.”
– Oh my gosh, that was funny!
SOUTHBEACHSAND……..AKA……. “AJ” maybe???
Juan Carlo – southbeachsand was being sarcastic…
The largest single Real Estate deal in U.S. history is going back the creditors……”Stuyvesant Town Turned Over to Creditors” — “But their reserves, once stuffed with $890 million for capital improvements, interest payments and renovations, are now virtually depleted. … The rents collected did not cover the mortgage payments”
– Are you listening AJ?
Perhaps Tishman Speyer Properties and BlackRock Realty thought they could get an 89% premium for water views??? They miscalculated. LOL Couldn’t resist a good joke at the expense of AJ.
Lucas,
Other bloggers are right. I know you are trying to help your friend out but this listing degrades your blog. This listing belongs on CraigsList, not here. Please resist such pressures in future from your “friends”.
Drew, et al:
There is another issue here that makes this rental potentially illegal. If I recall correctly, (and note I said “IF”), leases of 6 months or less are subject to taxation under Florida and maybe even the bass-ack-wards local law.
Given that the Florida’s economy is somewhere due-south of the toilet, if I owned this unit I would be wary of renting for the Superbowl because if the state finds out, it may come calling for the applicable sales tax, fees and any penalties.
I would also be very wary of advertising it – – as this is arguably now a conspiracy: two or more individuals agreeing to violate the law. (HINT!)
I recall reading about this issue several years ago when the players and staff from the NASDAQ tennis event on Key Biscayne were found to be staying in condos like The Club rather than in hotels. State and local authorities were not pleased about being denied the tax revenue (nor were the local hotels.)
scriv
RT
Stuyvesant was the biggest (and worst) real estate deal ever. $5bn purchase price for 11,000 units (avg $454,500 per unit) and now est value is $1.8bn. I’ve never personally visited Peter Cooper Village/Stuyvesant Town but it looks like prison housing. Or something out of the Communist Bloc.
The Fla state pension fund lost over $250m in that deal.
Check that: it is not just a sales tax issue. There is also room tax.
scriv
I think that it is such a GOOD DEAL….it might be gone soon.Nobody will have to worry about it.
Jonsey:
Sure it’s a great deal. If you can take the glaring light from the AON building illuminating the unit at night – – it may be an idyllic place.
I also imagine that there are owners willing to do the same in the Jade or The Club – – across the street.
scriv
lucas i met a chick at quarterdeck, do you have any hourly deals ??
but seriously my uncle needs a place for the month of febuary ??
any one month deals ??
stuy town is nice the buildings are typical brown brick but the interior of the complex has 11 playgrounds a huge grassy/park “the oval”
its safe
its not fancy but much nicer than biscayne
whats the issue with short term rent. they should be doing this all over miami to encourage tourism otherwise put of by high hotel rates or low hotel rates in crap hotels.
plus landlords win becuase they can actually achieve a yield and pay the housing associations and it encourages more investment.
as for it not being in the rules…. bla bla bla… who cares, the buildings half frigging empty anyway!
Uh, so the solution to “high hotel rates” is to rent a basic condo for around $400 per night with basically *no* hotel amenities?
Hotels don’t need an uninsured, unlicensed and untaxed industry to compete with. – – Wild Bill
BRILLIANT!
These short-term rentals are also hard on the building as the associations will have little recourse against the short-term tenants.
The whole notion is unhealthy, unwise and probably fattening.
scriv
Agreed.
The only way this rental makes sense is if 5-6 people cram up in this unit for Sausage Fest XLIV.
Hey Lucas…..are there anymore weekly rentals that you know of??I have a cousin coming in for a week and he will be looking for something.He would only be looking to spend approx. $1000-$1200 for the week.It dosen’t have to have a water view.Thank you Jonsey
I have been reading this Blog for some time now.It is very informative …with Lot’s of knowledgeable people constantly writing in.My first question is for that guy AJ..AJ do you think if I come to Miami to look around for a Flat to buy/rent, I could pitch a tent for a few days in that park thats near you?I’m a little short of cash and would like to camo out in PACE PARK…I believe it is.If you could let me know I would appreciate it.
Short term rentals suck. Miami Beach residents know many mansion owners who tried daily rentals. These properties turned into weekend nightclubs.
The entire county relies on bed taxes. Hotels don’t need an uninsured, unlicensed and untaxed industry to compete with.
You can live in Pace Park. Many homeless do. City of Miami police only have a few officers in that area. You can easily hide out in the mangroves without paying any hotel taxes. I’m on my iPhone hiding out in the mangroves right now.
If you don’t pay hotel taxes Miami will never be able to finance new projects or pay back old bonds. Miami took on billions with the ball park. If you don’t go to a ball game and eat 10,000 hot dogs per game you’re not helping Miami.
You can also explore any tantalizing fantasy in Pace Park for around $20. For a more urban stimulation of sensual arousal, nearby 2nd Avenue will let your butter flow.
WOW….we can Camp and Play all in the same park? Maybe AJ will be around to give us some advive on renting a condo in his building.
Google search engine is going to bring up this blog anybody looks up 1800 Club. Surely nobody will want to live their now. AJ single handily managed to bring 1800 Club to its knees. At least the renters are happy.
What do you think about Aventura vs Sunny isles as an investment?
To All:
I try to keep it serious, but I have to admit that the majority of the past 10 posts have been pretty hilarious! On a serious note, I propose that we all get together at Pace Park for a pre-Super Bowl tailgate/keg party and (I hate to do this but I am going to) AJ – can we all use your bathroom?
DML
Hey AJ…..that would be very kind of you if we could use your washroom!!!Nobody will have to go behind the bush’s to do there business.Maybe we can use your pool too.Let us know and I will bring my bathing suit.We can all help you promote your Condo Flat. Thank you so much AJ you are a kind man. Juan P.S. I am going to bring all my Sista’s and Brudda’s and all the Bambinos
I can’t wait till the BIG PARTY at PACE PARK hosted by AJ.I will be there with a 14 piece band …we’re going to PARTY all night.Thank you AJ.
I can’t wait to experience the utopia that is Pace Park and 1800….thanks AJ for volunteering to host the party….I assume you will be personally DJ-ing it too?
Hello RENTER TOM!!!! I am sure AJ will be spinning the tunes for the week-end PARTY.I sure hope you will be in attendance as well.It’s going to be a PACE/1800 CLUB PARTY!!!! I always knew AJ was the Man!!!!!THANKS AGAIN AJ
Obviously the hobos should be invited too, after all, you should always invite the neighbors when you have a party…. What is an appropriate party gift to bring, since I don’t want the hobos to feel unwelcome….beer, wine, or crack? Please advise.
Hobos live in Miami Beach. Crack whores live in Pace Park. 1800 You Be Smoking Crack Club. Search engines love 1800 Club.
1800 Club….so crack is the appropriate party gift then? Sometimes these people settle for just plain cigarettes since they are always trying to bum cigarettes off strangers even if you don’t smoke.
Maybe we can invite Kevin Tomlinson to the Pace Park Super Bowl Party too. After all, according to his website, “Kevin Tomlinson, the most respected name in Miami Beach luxury condos”. On second thought, I doubt he watches sports………………………
gixxer,
look at the condo ranking page. Long before you logged on this site, Lucas had Blue ranked higher than 1800 Club!!! Blue, that flopped motel style building smack in the middle of a highway! I had to write many livid and incredulous notes before Lucas corrected his mistake. But then, Like some of our past presidents, Realtors never like to say that they have made a mistake. Getting that would be like pulling teeth.
And then again, Lucas Ranks Axis Location score at 8.0 and 1800 Club at 6.5!! Has anyone been to Axis and around? Anyone who thinks Axis location is better than 1800 Club deserves to live there.
He also gave the risk factor for 1800 Club at 6.0
That is also wrong. The building is almost fully sold out. Your information of 73 flats owned by Developer is wrong and probably dated.
Apart from being fully sold, the building is in excellent shape regarding delinquencies or foreclosures. So I even contest that ranking too.
But I am not going ballistic about Lucas giving a piddly 6.9 overall (still higher than most other buildings listed there) to 1800 and not higher is because, it is just a one mans opinion.
But then at least Lucas site mentions the criteria used to arrive at such scores, however debatable it maybe. The other site just throws a number with no explanation. So I would take Lucas’s ranking over the other site, albeit with a pinch of salt.
Funny stuff. Getting even better by the minute.
Now, some serious information:
Florida existing home, condo sales up in 2009
South Florida Business Journal
After one of the worst housing downturns in recent memory, the state’s real estate market ended 2009 on a positive note.
Existing home and condo sales across Florida were higher last year than they were in 2008, according to housing data released by Florida Realtors.
Existing home sales rose 31 percent in 2009, with 163,148 homes sold, up from 124,168 homes sold in 2008. Existing condo sales were up 47 percent last year, to 55,985 from 38,095 a year earlier.
On the flip side, median prices on existing homes statewide in 2009 were $142,600, down 24 percent from $187,700 in 2008.
Existing condo prices in Florida fared even worse, with the median price falling 34 percent, year-over-year, to $108,000 from $164,200 in 2008.
For the month of December, existing home sales statewide rose 33 percent, to 14,630 homes from 11,013 homes sold in December 2008. Existing condo sales for December exploded, rising 91 percent to 5,968 from 3,132 in December 2008.
Existing home sales in Miami were up 53 percent, to 6,685 in 2009 from 4,379 a year earlier. The median price, however, fell 29 percent, to $195,300 from $276,600.
Existing condo sales in Miami rose 50 percent, to 6,854 from 4,580. The median price of a condo in Miami fell 40 percent, to $142,400 from $239,400.
In Fort Lauderdale 7,934 existing homes sold in 2009, up 38 percent from 6,377 in 2008. The median price fell 26 percent, to $205,700 from $278,000.
Existing condo sales there rose 51 percent, to 9,894 from 6,551 a year earlier.
Existing home sales in West Palm Beach rose 25 percent to 8,684 from 6,953. The median price, however, slid 21 percent to $239,000 from $302,800.
Existing condo sales rose to 7,887, up 30 percent from 6,075 in 2008. The median price of a condo fell 25 percent to $107,300 from $143,800.
Nationwide, existing home sales fell in December, as expected, after first-time buyers rush to complete sales before the original November deadline for the $8,000 credit.
For all of last year, 5,156,000 existing homes sold, up 49 percent from 2008 and the first annual sales gain since 2005.
“It’s significant that home sales remain above year-ago levels, but the market is going through a period of swings driven by the tax credit,” said Lawrence Yun, National Association of Realtors chief economist, in a news release. “We’ll likely have another surge in the spring as home buyers take advantage of the extended and expanded tax credit. By early summer, the overall market should benefit from more balanced inventory, and sales are on track to rise again in 2010.”
However, he noted that the job market remains a concern and could impact any further recovery of the housing market at least until the second half of 2010.
The national median price for an existing home was $178,300 in December, up 1.5 percent from December 2008. For all of 2009, the median price was $173,500, down 12.4 percent from $198,100 in 2008. Distressed homes accounted for 36 percent of total sales last year.
AJ,
You bought in 1800 as a place to live. From my argument in the other thread I think that position is justified. If others wanted to buy in 1800 I would tell them that in my OPINION I think its a good move if you really want to live there.
But it is plain and simply not a good investment right now. Stop throwing out random, pointless opinions like the one above unless you have any evidence to the contrary.
“Your information of 73 flats owned by Developer is wrong and PROBABLY dated.”
Go to miamidade.gov and look up the tax information for 1800 club. There is clearly only 199 units that have had tax assessed in 2009. That leaves 224 condos that have had no tax assessed since you’re claiming the building is 90% sold out. And the rest of the multiple owners listed on condoreports.com is correct per the tax records.
So tell us all AJ how 224 people own condos at 1800 and yet seem to have had no taxes assessed on them??????
GOOD NEWS!!!!!! I have a whole buch of friends commin down for the party that AJ is having for SUPER BOWL.I hope AJ can ask some of his nice neighbours is they mind sharing all the facilities as well.This is going to be a PARTY that will promote 1800 CLUB as well. I now AJ will be most happy. See ya all soon
“I now AJ will be most happy.” – – Miami or Bust.
http://www.dictionary.com
scriv
Visionary – Distressed home sales made up a large chunk of the increase if not all of it.
“Distressed homes accounted for 36 percent of total sales last year.” That was apparently for the nation. In our area the number is likely higher.
As a stats exercise, if you have 10,000 units that sell in 2008 and then have 15,000 units sell in 2009, that is a 50% increase in sales yoy…..however, the increase makes up only 33% of sales and so the distressed sales of 36% exceeds the increased sales amount. I am sure you are aware of this….although I’m also sure it is over AJ’s head….GED classes begin again soon.
HEY AJ DON’T FORGET TO GIVE US ALL ….YOUR FLAT # and direction’s to PACE PARK TENT CITY???? Thank you so much again AJ…..you are making SUPER BOWL the BEST ONE EVERRRRRR!!!!!!!!!
HEY Scriv…….I’m a HILLYBILLY NOT a proffeser
AJ – You better have a huge flatscreen TV, that’s all I can say….. 🙂
AJ,
You’re right that I need to update the Condo Rankings page. It has been a very long time since I’ve updated it. I need to adjust the risk scores for each building. I’ll try to work on that later today.
Renter Tom
Whether the new sales are distressed or not is irrelevant. As prices have decreased, sales have increased. Does it matter if the price decrease is a loss to someone else? The quicker these losses are taken the quicker we get back to normalcy.
Gixxer 1000 – My point was to point out one reason for the sales number increase…..good price reductions are the reason…and the vast supply of distressed homes. I have posted a LONG time ago, that if some of these projects cut prices by 50% off peak prices, they’d sell out in a week. All real estate has a buyer (except Detroit and Three Mile Island) at the right price!
gixxer,
I have no idea why the county clerk site is showing that figure (I have not checked it out myself and I am going by what you say). I have the inside info straight from the management office and the board of directors that the developer is just left with some 47 units. That is the real inside info and trumps every other info. But 73 or 47, lets not split hairs. Its all good.
Lucas,
Thanks for taking note of my concern.
and while you are updating the risk factor, please revisit the Arts district location criteria too. The area has changed leaps and bounds for the better. Bayshore drive beautification is almost over. The Biscayne Blvd is bursting with new restaurants, Pace Park is safer than a bank vault, The cops are relentless and are giving summons to anyone found in the park after 10 pm. The location score should definitely get bumped up for this area to at least 7.5. Once the Biscayne blvd redo is finished in another 18 months and Paramount is open, there will be no turning back and this area will give Brickell a run for its money. I am not even taking into account the massive plans for NE 2nd avenue and the various other projects that are already in the pipeline.
RT,
OK, I misunderstood. I thought you were trying to spin the increase in sales as irrelevant BECAUSE they were distressed.
“All real estate has a buyer (except Detroit and Three Mile Island) at the right price!”
Agreed. This has been part of my argument as well. There is plenty of demand the prices just haven’t been right. But now there getting there.
I’d also like to point out that pended sales have hovered around 30% higher than closed sales. Sales could be much higher. But because of the complicated short sale process many sales aren’t materializing.
Here is an article about how the U.S. Treasury may institute guidelines for the short sale process.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-short-sale-changes-20100111,0,2830786.story
“Aside from imposing a 10-day deadline, the Treasury rules call for sellers to receive $1,500 moving allowances, and the sellers will not have to repay any of the debt.
Also, lenders will get $1,000 to cover administrative and processing costs, while investors owning the mortgages will receive a maximum $1,000 for allowing up to $3,000 in short sale proceeds to be distributed to less senior lenders.”
AJ said: “Pace Park is safer than a bank vault….”
– But you don’t even live there?!?! How would you really know?
FYI folks:
http://southflorida.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2010/01/25/daily10.html
scriv
RT,
Because that’s what the management office at 1800 club told him. And as you know…
“That is the real inside info and trumps every other info.”
Right….I’d surely believe an idiotic property mgmt agent or a developer rep over the county public records. AJ, quite possibly the most off-base comment you’ve ever made.
I can’t wait for the super bowl party at Pace Park. I’ll be dressed like a homeless person like everyone else there.
I’ll bring the dirty martinis.
(wink)
scriv
Here is a song for the party:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2vkK8ewD-Q
I just looked on craigslist and searched “super bowl” in the vacation rentals section. Had a good laugh. Tons and tons of people trying to rent their one or two bedroom downtown/brickell condos for like $1,500……per night! Most say 3-4 day minimum.
Glad to see crack is still king in Miami!
I will say that Pace Park has gotten much better. I jog there every Saturday and Sunday morning and the scene is not nearly as dreary and dismal as it used to be. There are single moms pushing baby strollers and plenty of couples walking their pets. It is not nearly as bad as some people on here describe it. This I know from first hand experience. I am seeing a greater police presence and not as many homeless people as well.
Below is a leeter the resident of 900 got a few weeks ago from the mayor. I copy and pasted the text for all to read. This is one of the few instances where I can say a politician appears to have actually made good on a promise. I go out at night about three times during the week and walk to various bars and clubs. I can honestly say I have noticed a bit more police out and about.
****Letter from the mayor***
Dear Downtown Merchant and Downtown Residents,
First and foremost, I would like to extend my best wishes to each of you as we begin the new year. During my campaign, I promised an administration that would go back to basics by focusing on the quality of life for all Miamians; residents, merchants, and visitors. The priority of this pledge was and remains safety because there is no progress in our commercial areas like Downtown unless the residents and merchants are safe and feel safe. The new chief of police shares my vision of a better quality of life for all and this is why I am pleased to announce “Operation Downtown Night Life”. “Operation Downtown Night Life” will commence on Sunday, January 10, 2010 and will continue to Saturday, April 3, 2010. The operation will consist of the deployment of additional officers for a greater visibility in the Downtown area including one lieutenant, one sergeant, and seven officers who have been reassigned from the administration division to patrol the Downtown area from 2 pm to midnight, seven days a week. This will increase the visibility in Downtown by nine police officers. This operation is in the Downtown NET area and will be under the control of new area commander, David Sanchez. After the operation starts, I would like to hear from you to determine how effective it has been and if the chief should modify the scope of the operation. My commitment to Downtown is the best quality of life possible for everyone. Once again, I wish you all the best for this new year.
Sincerely,
Tomas Regalado
Mayor
City of Miami
Can I get a burger and fries with that cheese?
scriv
“from 2pm to midnight”
because crime never occurs downtown after midnight. ever.
Miami high end market is up???
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-01-26/high-end-home-prices-gain-in-12-u-s-cities-including-miami.html
Translation….. overtime for officers will now exceed $300,000. They will steal it from some other area. As long as high end salaries get paid the unions are happy. Screw the residents.
The N.Y. Times has a listing for a penthouse at Ten Museum with 5600. sq ft for $3,995,000. or about $700. per sq. ft. It was last sold 3 months ago for $995,000. or $177. per sq. ft. Looks like that one bedroom at Ten Museum from Lucas last post is over-priced at $173. per sq ft. 🙂
Publix going into old Omni Mall—any truth to that??
Whsushh jus dubs. Thais qH was sibe UVA usbshz
Richard #74
Publix had considered that location 6-7+- years ago when a local reit made a bid for the Omni mall but the reit lost to a NYC based group…maybe it was not such a loss after all;while the mall has been refurbished and looks much improved it has few tenants.
Where did you hear the rumor ?
A Publix would be helpful to all the folks now living in the area-after all renters have to eat too!
I want to get you opinion…..I have a deposit at Icon, and hiried an attorney to get out of the contract…..So I just recieved a phone call, and I’m being offered 50% of my deposit back. Persumably somebody is interested in the unit, and its going to be an assignable contact. He’s claiming that he wont be able to get another 50% back from them. So I’m guessing that my other half will go towards closing for that person. I’m really being pressured by the attorney, and I’m not really sure what to do. I think that the 50% is/or should be in escrow now……so he’s really not doing anything….
Have you guys heard of deals like this. What was the the % that people are getting back. Is this a good deal?????
What does the contract say about returning of security deposits?
“He’s claiming that he wont be able to get another 50% back from them. ” Who is the “he” that you are talking about?
scriv
“He’s claiming that he wont be able to get another 50% back from them. ”
It all depends on what your contract states regarding deposit recovery. Without knowing the details, I thought that TRG arguably defaulted by failure to deliver the unit in the designated time frame (2 yrs perhaps?). Typically you’d be entitled to your deposit in the event of developer default but then again these contracts were drafted very carefully (and one-sided) and may have protected the developer from turning over deposits to buyers.
The answer to your question is probably pretty simple if you read your contract.
Keep in mind its alot easier for your atty to cut a deal at this stage where he’ll receive his assumed 33% of the 50% rather than for him to litigate for several months in which his fees probably won’t be much more than what he’s getting now. Its to his benefit to settle this early.
“Presumably somebody is interested in the unit, and its going to be an assignable contact.”
Are you sure about this – – “assignment” is a technical term of art. Are you sure they are going to “assign” the contract to another buyer?
scriv
what he means is that when you signed the contract, you agreed that the developer could use 50% of your deposit for construction. that money has been spent. you could try and get it back but the theories presented so far have all been losers (i’m certain beck and cooper and the rest of the gang will come up with something…which will lose as well).
thus, you’re getting 50% of the 50% that was placed in escrow (i.e., 25% of your total deposit). i know there is one icon contract that allows for a return somewhere around this amount. there’s another icon contract that provides no return of deposit. as for the former, related is cutting deals along the lines of the contract language (sounds like this is the contract you have). as for the latter, related is playing hardball and telling depositors to suck it.
your lawyer wants out because most of the attorneys are walking from icon cases (1) b/c of the contracts and (2) the continuing amount of bad law that is coming out for plaintiffs in general on these condo deposit claims.
scrivener – i refered to “he” is the attorney.
I know its easier for for attorney to close this deal by giving me back 50%, but what about the rest??? So basically looks like he hasn’t done anything, because half the money is in the escrow anyways, if I understand correctly….
He just called me 3 times……looks like he’s being very very pushy…. 🙂
scrivener – that’s the thing I’m not sure that this is getting assigned to another buyer….I asked for the contract yestarday, and my attorney bacame very angry….then he emailed the contract. It is another attorneys name on the contact, and he is the buyer….?????Hmmmm I don’t know what to think
jcrimes – according to the papers I’m being offerd 50% of the initial deposit.
Anyone heard of dels like this one????
Ouch!
I’d like to help but I won’t give legal advice in this kind of environment – – call it “professional courtesy.”
One piece of advice, however: don’t be bullied by your attorney. He works for you, not the other way around.
scriv
AJ……is there a grocery store we can get to easy to buy all our grub and BOOZE. I’m sure theres no problem gettin anything else the Party needs right in the park. Thank you again VERY MUCH AJ.
lost deposit,
Most likely if they have another buyer then the developer has fulfilled their obligation to provide you with unit to close on and more than likely the contract is written in such a way that you have a contractual obligation to close. If you want to read what sounds like a similar case go here and look up 1800 Club Ltd and select the CVP for Victor Perez on 08/27/09:
In this ruling the the defendant (Victor) signed a contract to close on a $419k unit and placed a deposit of $83k (half of which was used for construction cost).
He then executed a transfer agreement for someone else to close on the property for $500k and they placed a $5ok deposit.
When the second person failed to close the developer kept the $50k deposit and then returned to Victor to close.
When Victor failed to close they “assigned” the property to a third party for $300k.
After deducting the $50k deposit that they took from the second buyer from the $119 they loss from Victors contract ($419k – $300k) they then added carrying costs and sued Victor for $112k.
Courts rulings:
Since the developer produced a property that was able to be closed they had fulfilled their obligation and Victor was in breach of contract.
The developer had a legitimate claim to the half of the deposit used for construction costs and therefore was able to keep it.
The developer was awarded the remaining deposit in escrow and any interest earned on said deposit as liquidated damages.
Now I don’t know how your contract reads but if it is anything similar to this guys contract your actually catching a break by getting back anything.
As jcrimes mention the rulings are coming down on their side.
AJ, I just compared a random sample of 15 the 73 properties listed as owned by 1800 Club Ltd. on the CondoReports site with the property information in Miami-Dade’s GIS (http://gisims2.miamidade.gov/myhome/propmap.asp), and the CondoReports site was correct every time on both ownership and square footage. When a 20% random sample turns out to be 100% accurate, I think it’s safe to say that CondoReports’ information is correct and you’re wrong. 73 (15%) of the units in 1800 Club are still developer-owned.
HEY AJ if Bender is right…I know you have a LOT of pull at the 1800 CLUB.With all those empty FLATS..do you think you could talk to the guy and let your buddies that are less fortunate camp out in the empty Flats for the weekend?? That would be so nice of ya buddy.Look at all the promotion the 1800 Club is gonna get from a good deed like that What do you think AJ????
Bulk buy info for Met1:
http://condovultures.com/en/home/4308-80-condo-units-trade-for-167-million-in-downtown-miami.html
“A private equity group paid $16.7 million for 80 units in the new but struggling Met One condo tower in Downtown Miami, a price that represents a 40 percent discount off of the average closed sales price prior to the bulk transaction, according to a new report from CondoVultures.com.
The buyers purchased 67,400 square feet of space at an average price of $248 per square foot, some 60 percent of the average recorded price of $416 per square foot in the tower since its opening in 2008, according to the CondoVultures.com report based on Miami-Dade County records.”
I have to disagree with bender… I spent some time on condoreports and can confirm that their information is not completely accurate. They still have my unit, which i purchased 7 months ago, as being owned by the developer. And some of their numbers, like sales volume and ppsf, are a little off. I spent weeks researching the building before purchasing and my numbers and theirs don’t add up. Similar to whats posted in this blog, I dont think that site should be considered a “credible source of information”.
miamiorbust- jokes over buddy, calm down.
condoreports is pretty darn accurate, more so than a LOT of sites and blogs (hint hint). It is a great source for snapshot info on a building. You still need to drill down if you’re looking to buy….but as good as it gets out there folks.
AJ…..you haven’t let us know if we can use your can ……and fridge to keep the beer cold !!!We don’t want to pee in the Park.Are you getting some extra keys made for yer Flat??I will be responsible fer all the guys and girls I’m bringin down fer the party.Your the Man AJ. Let us know what yer doin??
Craigslist has a Hotel Club 1800 unit.
http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/sub/1570364187.html
Asking $1000/ night. Negotiable for longer stays. Available 1/27 to 2/9.
Email me or call me 305-766-****.
N Bayshore Dr. at 18th Street
It even comes with an XBOX 360 Elite with HD output including games, Madden 10, Fight Night 4, Tiger 10, etc.
Dale:
You mentioned that you spent several weeks researching before buying your condo. What type of metrics were you looking at? What analytics to you do, presumably comparing other competitor buildings? Also, now that you bought and have owned for a period of time, how did your research results compare with reality?
Thanks,
DML
lost deposit:
I agree with Gixxer 1000’s analysis concerning your situation. You should take the money and run!
Food for thought – I bought stocks and bonds during a long period of time and beginning from September 2008 to November 2008 I watched my portfolio value melt more 40%. In other words I took a financial gamble and, due to market forces, I lost a lot! I’m not asking any lawyer to try and get my money back.
Why do you think the counter party in your gamble should give you anything. You bet and you lost!
DML
DML
Poor analogy. The inherent risks of playing the market aren’t equivalent to a real estate purchase. If the developer did in fact breach the sales agreement, the buyer is entitled to seek a return of his deposit, under the presumption (of course) that the contract gives the buyer such recovery rights.
The problem is that most of these developer contracts were essntially contracts of adhension (“take it or leave it”) that the buyers’ rights have been greatly diminished.
The “gamble” was the buyer’s assumption that values would keep rising and that the buyer would be able to flip at some point prior to completion to or post-completion. That did not happen, and there’s no rationale for closing on a unit for x dollars when its current value is 40% less than x. So they look for any way to back out of the deal…but that doesn’t mean the buyer should be prevented from seeking redress if the developer defaulted.
Drew:
I did not imply that a buyer should be prevented from taking legal action if a developer defaults. Of course they should be able to. Our legal system is intended to provide those rights to buyers/investors.
The inherent risks in “playing” the stock market are not any different than buying real estate. Any investment or finance expert will tell you that! You buy traded assets at a low price and expect the price to go higher and then you sell and make a profit (or loss if the selling price is lower than what you paid). What Lost Deposit did is he made an investment decision to buy an ICON condo instead of stocks, gold bars, timberland, or whatever. The inherent risks are exactly the same.
What is different is the way the market works with respect to each type of asset. Stocks and bonds are traded in a very liquid market. ICON condo units are not. This is one of the biggest problems with real estate, liquidity. I think Lost Deposit should have considered that before he signed the contract! In investing sometimes you need to learn the hard way.
DML
I don’t know if AJ is actually reading your juvenile posts, he is most likely enjoying a drink by the pool side at some exotic location and all you morons especially Miami or Bust, Wild Bill and Renter Tom are looking like idiots and giving all of us a headache instead of AJ, your intended target.
“If the developer did in fact breach the sales agreement”
I think that is the key here. lost deposit has only indicated that he/she wants to get out of the contract NOT that TRG has breached their contract. And considering there has already been units that have closed I’m guessing probably not.
In any case, most of the time the first half is used for construction cost. And since the building is built, you wouldn’t be able to get that back even if you sued. The only thing they could be in breach for is maybe promised amenities or monthly maintenance costs.
So even by suing, best case scenario is getting the 50% remaining in escrow. And they’re already offering that to you now.
Take it and run.
As a side not I wonder if the reverse were true how most people would feel. Imagine if instead of the market declining it instead increased. So developers wanted to give back deposits so they could sell the units to someone else at a higher price. People would be going crazy and demanding that they enforce the contract.
Gixxer, I agree. Of course the condo deposit lawsuits are purely driven by economics. The lucky buyers are the ones who can prove developer default in order to recover the funds.
Alot of talk about 50% of the deposit being used for construction purposes and therefore unrecoverable. So is it a “deposit” or construction financing? How can you call it a deposit if 50% is immediately at-risk and not held is escrow?
I have seen developer contracts that allow for 10% of the deposit to be used for construction purposes but never 50%….I thought Fla Stat Ch 718 caps it at 10% anyway…jcrimes, scriv…any insight?
Ppre-construction condo deals are too risky with way too many unknowns to justify a large deposit. The final product is usually delivered late, the HOA fees are higher than originally estimated, the amenities don’t live up to the marketing material hype, and you’re locked in to a price that is well above current value. What a deal.
Drew,
Find the CVP that I talked about in post #87. In that document is specifically stated that the 50% of the deposit could and was used for construction purposes. So I doubt 10% is the cap.
“pursuant to paragraph 2 of the contract and Florida Statutes 718.202, escrow agent had disbursed $41,900.00 (50%) to 1800 Club for 1800 Club’s actual use in construction of the condominium. “
718.202 Sales or reservation deposits prior to closing.
(3) If the contract for sale of the condominium unit so provides, the developer may withdraw escrow funds in excess of 10 percent of the purchase price from the special account required by subsection (2) when the construction of improvements has begun.
Thanks.
Another reason to avoid pre-construction contracts.
Drew,
While reading through FS 718 I see the cap is actually 10% of the sales price not the deposit. So if you have a $500k condo and a $100k deposit, the most you can disperse from escrow before construction is 10% of the $500k. Which in this example happens to be 50% of the deposit. So depending how large the deposit is you could actually use more than 50% of the deposit even before construction.
OK. guys here is the deal….my attorney is really really pushy screaming at me on the phone. The wants the deal done…I get it….but here is the thing. He sent me one contract yesterday, and then said that its not the right one…So he sends me a BLANK contract, and that’s what he wants me to review, and agree to a blank contract, and then he said he will fill it out….lmao….So finally today he send me another contract where it states that combined brokers commisions will be 12%.
This is all soooo shady…..
CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN,,,,I’m beginning to think that that guy ” AJ ” is just nothing but an old disc jockey livin in a $400 a month rental apartment in skid row somewhere.WHO REALLY knows who he is and what he has.I think he’s FULL OF SH!* and dosen’t have a cent…..just like RENTER TOM thinks.And everyone knows that RENTER TOM know’s the most on this site. “AJ” is just a LOSER I think!!!!!!!!He won’t even respond to a lot of bloggers on here ..PRETENDING he’s away .HE’S PROBABLY FLIPPIN BURGERS AT CHECKER’S at PACE PARK
LOST DEPOSIT……..DON’T ask AJ for any advice!!!!!! Go see him at CHECKER’S FLIPPIN BURGERS but NO ADVICE!!!!!
lost deposit-
By any chance is your attorney Scott Rothstein?
I can’t believe that sp many people actually believe that now is a good time to buy.WAIT and SEE before you jump!
Drew – No
LD
since it sounds like you have a good argument for at least some of your money (related doesn’t give up that easily), and your lawyer is presumably on a contingency, then what’s the downside of making your lawyer litigate a bit? ask him to explain the risks going forward etc. if you don’t understand still, make him put it in writing. if you want the money and don’t give a crap about a few thousand, then call it a day, and wrap up the litigation.
Gixxer
that scenario did happen – the bentley bay bankruptcy case a few years ago. the developer rejected mutliple sales contracts (as allowed under the bankruptcy code) and then entered into higher purchase price contracts.
Lost deposit:
(sigh)
Based on what you wrote in posting #106 your reaction is perfectly reasonable. It sounds to me like your attorney is more interested in his fee than in representing your interests.
First and foremost, DO NOT be bullied by your attorney into doing anything. And certainly do not sign anything you do not understand. A contract is an agreement between the signing parties that the law will give legal effect.
Legal representation is a service industry just like others. Yelling, screaming and bulling are not trademarks of good service. Would you tollerate a waiter/waitress in a restaurant who yelled at you? Think about it.
There are a ton of lawyers in South Florida – – probably even more than there are vacant condos teetering on foreclosure. (smile)
Secondly, I’ll break my general rule here (just this once) and ask: What is the purpose of the contract he sent you? Blank or not, what end does it serve. What is the title of the document? Does it appear to have been individually tailored for you or is it merely a mass-produced form document?
If you can’t answer these general afore-mentioned questions, your attorney is not competently representing you. Do not sign anything until you can answer those questions.
Finally, who is this lawyer? I don’t need/want a name. What kind of practice does he have? What kind of cases does he routinely handle?
As we all know, real estate law is a hot topic in Florida since the crash of the housing market. For this reason, there are a lot of lawyers who do not do real estate law that are trying to cash in. Granted some may genuinely be trying to expand their practice: and there is nothing wrong with that if they do the required research and study.
The rest, however, are, no surprise, a collection of no-class bottom-feeders who are just trying to cash in. Be very wary of these folks. I say this not because I think that they are necessarily bad people or incompetent. Rather it is because that many are solely interested in the fee/revenue, not necessarily the law. Many lack the training and do not know how to handle the transactional side of the deal and, worse yet, won’t take the time to do the research required to make themselves competent to handle matter.
Unfortunately I have seen this happen a lot. The client ends up getting screwed because the attorney did not do the research and study required to make himself/herself competent in the area of the law and, consequently, mishandled the matter.
scriv
Agree with scriv. No way would i let my lawyer treat me that way. if he cannot provide clear and concise reasoning for the documents and options being presented, tell him you will find another lawyer. and if he has any business involvement in the deal (deed passing through his name,etc) then you need to run. scams are all over the place, and your lawyer should have absolutely no conflict of interest in your business deal. you mentioned earlier that may not be the case. remember you are the one who must deal with the financial aftermath of your decisions, not him!
I agree with gables. Without knowing much about the deal, whenever an attorney is more anxious to close a deal than the actual client, that screams “PROBLEM.” I’d run from this lawyer ASAP and not pay him/her a dime. You might even want to send a report to the Florida Bar in regards to the screaming and hollering you mentioned, which wouldn’t be acceptable at the local Burger King. Good luck.
lost deposit – I believe the reason your attorney is being pushy is because at that point you had the ability to assign the unit. I was told recently by the developers team that there will no longer be any assignment of units and only official defaults on all units. The 12% commission I suspect has something to do with the remainder of the payout to the two broker who were involved in the sale of your property during your preconstruction purchase and now the brokers involved in getting you a replacement buyer. There is typically a transfer fee the developers construction lender also charges which is part of this 12%. Seen it before.
900 fan-a good attorney will explain the situation rather than push the issue and create unnecessary drama.
900 Fan:
An interesting explanation. And these costs are interesting variables. Thank you for raising them.
But one has to wonder why the attorney was being so aggressive because an assignment, it and of itself, does not free the client from the obligation as the developer, debt holder, mortgage holder, still has recourse against the assignor in the event that the assignee defaults. There is, of course, a way to structure an assignment so that the assignor is free and clear (called a “novation” agreement), but one has to wonder why, in this lovely market we are in, a developer or debt holder would agree to it.
scriv
FYI:
“No Help in Sight, More Homeowners Walk Away”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/business/03walk.html?ref=business
scriv
Sooooo, did it get rented for the big Super Bowl weekend or not???
I admit, I have not been on this real estate blog in a long time… however it was another joy to see it is such an important topic and ignored by so many, even professionals. I thank you to help making people more aware of possible issues.
Great stuff as usual….