New Miami Condos – Closings Rates for January 2008
January 17, 2008 by Lucas Lechuga
- New Miami Condos - Closing Rates for November 2007
- New Miami Condos - Closing Rates for December 2007
Below you will find the date that each development began closings:
- Latitude on the River - July 27, 2007
- Star Lofts on the Bay - June 20, 2007
- Onyx on the Bay - July 31, 2007
- Ten Museum Park - June 14, 2007
- 2 Midtown - April 30, 2007
- 50 Biscayne - October 1, 2007
- One Bal Harbour - October 30, 2007
- Loft Downtown 2 - September 26, 2007
- Quantum on the Bay - January 3, 2008
Before anybody says it, I realize that One Bal Harbour is not a "Miami Condo". I didn't want to change the title of the post just to reflect the fact that One Bal Harbour is located in Bal Harbour. I also didn't want to exclude it from the list because there is much interest in One Bal Harbour, and besides, One Bal Harbour owners would criticize me for not providing an update when the closing rate has jumped since the last update.
The closing rate at One Bal Harbour has hit the 70 percent mark. This is a significant increase since last month's update. The stock price of WCI surged about 15 percent in the regular session on Wall Street and another 19 percent in after-hours trading on Wednesday after it reported that it has successfully been able to amend its credit and loan agreements. The news story was not publicly disclosed until after the bell. There are currently 55 condo units that have not closed, according to public records. The news reveals that WCI now has a considerable amount of time to sell these last remaining condos.
Ten Museum Park has had about a 7 percent increase in its closing rate while 50 Biscayne has had about an 18 percent increase, since the December update. With the exception of One Bal Harbour, Ten Museum Park and 50 Biscayne, none of the other developments have had an increase of over 5 percent. The two new entries to this month's update are Loft Downtown 2 and Quantum on the Bay. Loft Downtown 2 should have been included in the November update since closings began in September but it simply slipped my mind. Sporting a 74 percent closing rate, however, makes Loft Downtown 2 appear quite successful in comparison to the other Miami condos. The Grand Opening Party for Loft Downtown 2 is scheduled for Thursday evening.
Closings at Quantum on the Bay began earlier this month and as I've stated many times before, closings can take up to 2-3 weeks before they are recorded with the county (however, I have heard that as of January 1, 2008, this is no longer the case. A reliable source told me that a step that sometimes delays the process is no longer required. Closings should now be recorded within 1-2 days after the condo has closed. Can a title agent elaborate on this for me?). Don't take too much away from the low closing rate at Quantum on the Bay. I mainly included it to act as a stepping stone for next month's update and let everyone know that it is now on my radar.
I was just about to say 26 closings reported on Quantum in the public records but I have 2 clients which closed 10 days ago and are still not reflected in the county records. So much for the county taking only 1-2 days now.
Does anyone know where I can find statistics on what all of these previous units at TMP initially sold for? I see all of the listings on Zilbert and want to see initial sale prices. Have any units been to auction?
80 closings so far on Quantum on the Bay, with 5 living in as of January 24. Entrance fountain working.
Al,
80 closings? Where did you get that info? Public records show only 16 closings.
From the Front Desk
UpperEastNYC
Please share the info with me if you find out. Greatly appreciated. [email protected]
Would anyone share an update on closings at Marina Blue – long waiting for TCO?
I highly recomend you Latitude on the River, line 14 (1/1) on Miami River and I-95.
I think he needed a 2/2
JL, Presales depending on when you got in were around $400/$425 psf.
Good Morning. I know there’s a LOT of very knowledgable people reading these comment’s.I’d like to ask some of you your honest answer to a question.I know you have to compare apple’s to apple’s ….but if you were to buy a condo today and had 350K max.to spend….where would it be??Downtown Miami or Aventura area?Or any other area in between.I’m talking a “new” or nearly new spec. unit.I know there’s a LOT to consider…and there’s many different scenarios..but let’s say a nice building with nice amenities…around a 1000-1100 sq.ft. 2 bed. 2 bath.With a water “view”.What would you say would be a ALL AROUND good buy for use as a second home.All comment’s would be very much appreciated and welcomed. Thank you.
Mike, on the Zilbert site they are showing 3 listings off the MLS dated 1/11/08 on high floors asking 490-560/ft. Since there are only 3 oddball listings, take it with a grain of salt.
In general, what were the presale $/ft on high floors?
BTW, here’s the latest on OBH from EWM (I wish I could afford this place):
posted by Susan Reiter on February 9, 2008 | […]
Here is the update as of today…
There are 93 units on the market out of the 185 in total
There are 15 pending sales
The MLS is reporting 14 closed sales
Out of the 93 units on the market some are being offered by investors looking to assign the contract and avoid closing
The WCI still has some developer units available
Speaking to the developer and to various unit owners, they believe that only a small percentage will go back to the developer and the rest will close and be sold. One owner that I was speaking with actually raised the price $100,000 that day on their 2,650 square foot unit.I will say this, the footprint of the building, the location, the view, and the amenities have so much going for it. Bal Harbour appeals to an international crowd and One Bal Harbour has unique characteristics that make it quite special.
The 09 line faces south east offering spectacular ocean, intracoastal, channel and coastline views. The units are 2,650 square feet, 3 bedroom 3 baths. The least expensive (09) unit offered is at $2,250,000.
Here is a look at One Bal Harbour: [photos]
That is unacceptable that the common areas are not finished after nearly 8 months. I have a feeling the deveoper is out of money and had to incur costs overruns just to deliver the building.
The “designer ready” units of some Miami condos is a sham and border line “bait and switch”. In most markets across the country (excluding PH units), units are finished with a standard hardwood floor or premium carpet at the very least. When TMP offers the $55k finished upgrade, they are pocketing about 50% of that as profit and fees. The markups are huge.
I’ve always thought the “loft” designed units were a big scam to cut costs by not installing ceilings, sheetrock, or standards walls seperating rooms. The developer pays less to construct those units but tries to charge the same as neighboring buildings who finish those units out.
My thoughts on bidet’s: big waste of money and take up space where most buyers would rather have a larger walk-in shower, hot tub, or more closet space.
I like what you guys have said about TMP because I’ve always thought the same thing, whoever designed those bathrooms is a jackass. It is the most uncomfortable non-user friendly bathroom I have ever seen in my entire life. A big ass shower sits in the middle of the bathroom and separates it’s components and it sits in the middle of the bedroom. I don’t want to see someone taking a shower while im lying on the bed. (that might be nice the first few times, but after that I’d just be annoyed. TMP has all the potential in world but they made some DUMB moves along the way.
My wife, Luchas and the TMP rep were standing in the master bedroom of the 7 line unit scratching our heads and wondering where would you put the bed? Neither of us could figure that out. Against the floor to ceilling window? Or, against the “additional cost frosted sliding doors” that separate the Master Bedroom from the living room/kitchen? You couldn’t put the bed against the one other wall of glass because you would block the door to the patio. The door should have been placed on the living room side. Oh, and I really like the Waste treatment plant directly across the street in Bicentennial Park. Did you guys know about that? I would hope the city puts some lipstick on that pig. Honestly, I really like the exterior style of TMP, 10 foot floor to ceilling windows and kitchen style. (even though the kitchen wouldn’t hold much more than a few boxes of cereal and 4 cans of beans. Yes, I do hope the prices drop like a rock to make all of these issues and design flaws palatable. If not then there will be others. Thanks for letting me vent.
Gerry, Raffi, and Brian:
Ditto my thoughts exactly on Ten Museum Park!
(Unfinished units, highly impractical bathrooms, valet parking with no other option, tiny kitchen cabs, etc)
What fools would want to pay high dollar for all of that?
It looks like Related Group chose to start renting out the unsold units at 50 Biscayne. I wonder how all of this will play out with the condo association budget.
no doubt that TMP has major layout problems (although it has been beaten to death already – yeah, the showers are majorly fakakte) but out of the four buildings going up there, the developer is probably in the best financial shape. got in cheap and paid off the senior. yeah, they’re sitting on inventory, but the end result will be their profit margin taking a hit and not how to stop the red ink.
star lofts…how in the hell can anyone justify those prices? nice building, but at the current prices, the typical potential purchaser probably has the cash flow to buy something on the beach.
Ooops, I meant to say “isn’t” going to spur sales above. I need an edit feature!
You’re right but I highly doubt that La Prarie will put themselves in a building that looks like that now. They will have to do improvements and by that time the pool and gym will be done. Restaurants will then follow. And don’t forget the supposed Michael Capponi lounge.
Brian
I agree with your comment about the spa. I was thinking the same thing when I toured TMP last week. I jokingly said to the TMP Rep that spending money at the Spa would be the last thing I would do after buying a unit. Actually, the Clinique website shows a press release stating it would open up in TMP in January 2007. I would say they are quite a bit off schedule.
Anyone have any info on 900 Biscayne? What is the current ppsf range there? I have contracts on two units there. One on the 33rd floor “C” line and the other on the 52nd floor on the south side of the building (I forget the line) with East, South and West exposure. Curious to know where things stand with this development but haven’t seen much discussion about it anywhere.
I may be naive because I was quite surprised to find out that the Ten Museum Park developer wants $55k (quoted by TMP Representative) more above the selling price to truly finish the units. I wonder what percentage of the units now for sale at TMP are unfinished (ie: no flooring) and would require the buyer to fork over tens of thousands of dollars above listed price. Is this typical for all of the new condos coming to market in Miami or only specific to TMP? Those that have closed cannot be too excited about spending additional 10’s of thousands of dollars to finish the units. Shouldn’t there have been an allowance included in the original selling price? This is a good reason why I think these unfinished condos will not sell at these prices and will drop south of $300 a square foot and drag down the few that are considered finished. Other issues I saw from my tour: vegetation around pool not surviving, gym/spa area completely unfinished and currently used for storage, Valet parking only. Oh, here is a crazy problem: Bidet and toilet are separate. Yes you read this correctly, they are each in separate little rooms. How are you supposed to use the bidet after using the toilet???
That Spa at TMP is going to spur sales or make it any nicer. How many people REALLY care if they can walk down and get an over priced facial? Thats more appealing to a hotel guest than a condo owner.
A nice restaurant and bar would have benefited the building more.
I agrre with comments above TMP altough outside looks great it’s is just plagued because the developer didn’t do a good job finishing up which will hurt him. Plus that valet only is so ridiculous. This has got to be the stupidest thing ever. I’m sure once the HOA gets more settled in they could prob handle that issue. You also gotta like that loft concept all lofts in general are a bit tricky to furnish so you really need to plan it out.
I see Marina Blue and 900 better buys overall. Marquis is looking nice but very expensive. TMP I “think” will recover but yep they did themselves a dis-service by taking so long to finish. Well all 3 bldg will be closed in ’08 so judge foryourself and go w/ what you like best. I went w/ MB and from the intial reactions and seemingly finshed ammenities I think it will be a great place to make it your primary or secondary residence.
Cheers!
RA,
I had the opportunity to tour Marina Blue last week. You can find photos on my blog. The pool deck was looking much more impressive than Ten Museum Park so far. While the building has not TCO’d yet, I think everyone will be surprised by Marina Blue. I think they will finish out this development with everything promissed. That’s a step in the right direction.
If anyone has a unit that is on a higher floor that want’s to sell now for CASH…..please let me know ASAP.I am looking for one of the smaller unit’s with a view.Thank you Connie
Sorry my previous message was about TMP…that was the condo that I was reffering to.
Thanks Lucas and Gerry.
It appears now there are 57 units for resale at 10 Museum. With another 30 or so from the developer still for sale.
Coupled with those just trying to rent out their unit for cheap because of the slow market, it appears over half of the building wants to sell or rent out their unit and have no desire to occupy the building.
Lucas –
I see that 10 Museum Park now has 54 units for sale on the market (out of only 200 units). Are those all resales? How many additionally are trying to rent out their unit?
wow.. One Bal Harbour did a great job. totally unexpected with their prices
Alex G,
The party is tonight. I can’t remember what time though. I saved the flyer on my home computer. Give Related a call.
Why is star lofts doing so poorly? I mean the building has a pretty good location (its on the bay, near the opera house and midtown). it also has few units and the layouts are a lot better than most buildings out there. Is the price what’s keeping it down? or bad advertising? I mean this building looks like it should be a winner.
Brian,
I toured Ten Museum Park two days ago. Those 54 Units listed for sale on Zilbert Realty website are not the only ones for sale. My understanding from my tour the other day is the developer has 30 + or – more for sale (unless I heard wrong). Those Unit #’s listed on Zilbert do not appear to be the ones owned by the developer.
Brian,
I agree with Gerry. I don’t believe that the developer has listed any of the defaulted units on the MLS. The 54 that you see are resales from people that have closed already.
Raffi,
Three reasons: price, price and price. You may say that the neighborhood is also a reason but this should be reflected in the price.
Guillermo,
I sent you an email to answer your question.
Sam,
I think Quantum on the Bay will be a much better development than 1800 Club. In the long run they will both do well but I think Quantum will fare better over the next year. The one bedroom units (facing west) at 1800 Club are in for some pain. Anyone that does their homework will realize that there’s a piece of land to the west of 1800 Club that has city approval to build a very tall high-rise which can potentially block any views and sunlight from coming into the one bedroom units at 1800 Club. The views from these one bedroom units to the south will be blocked by 1800 Club itself, the views to the north blocked by Quantum on the Bay and the views to the west potentially blocked in the future if the owner of that piece of land ever decides to develop a condo high-rise.
Who wants to bet Portico will never happen?
I sure hope it doesn’t. I’m not sure what the city was thinking when they approved the permit for that development.
For those of you interested in TMP style condos, I would highly suggest you check out Brickell on the River. I toured the south tower today and was amazed by the level of finishes as well as the ammenities offered by the developer.
Also, you have stability with the HOA since the north tower has been fully operational for more than two years already…
Brickell on the River South as well as their North tower have been a great success for Groupe Pacific…..
It’s really bad that the ammenties @ TMP arent done yet. That’s an embarrasment. BTW: Lucas do you still go with your prediction u wrote on your blog that you were sure that TMP East units would be selling in the $450+ range in ’08?
As far as finshes and and an extra 50k for build out…well thats why they say designer ready. Most of these other blds that come ready are usally preetty standard semi lame stuff. Carpets etc.. I mean if you are spending in excess of 300k – 500k etc..then you would want the good stuff not the mediocre or average stuff. For myself I have a unit at MB and the floors I’m putting in will cost me 20k without installation but my floor will be 32 X 32 and will make your shoes look bad. So it all comes down to high end finishes. Live in a high end bld and expect it to be worth the money u pay for it then u better put some $$ into it. Otherwise you’re just another average unit. A developer isnt gonna lay 20k floors as a standard option cause then it would raise the price even more. It would have been more trouble for me to rip out and break the standard stuff to install the good stuff so I would prefer it unfinished.
Lucas,can you tell us if the rumors that the developer in ONYX ON THE BAY is in Big problems are correct ??.
Lucas, do you have anymore info on the grand opening party for Loft 2? Is that happening tonight or next week?
Hope those buyers are all end users (for the sake of other condo owners). If not, then many of those units will be right back on the market soon.
If the developers manage to get most of their inventory closed, then that is good for them.
However, prices in the Miami area will continue to go down as long as there is an oversupply of units on the market. So, if many of these units come back on the market as resales in the next year or so, it won’t help the problem of prices dropping in Miami. That problem won’t be solved until the “months of supply” number gets back to normal.
Title companies play a big role as to when deeds get recorded, since a lot of them wait to group a certain number before sending them over to the Recorder’s Office. Some are better than others.
With the amount of money they charge for “courier fees”, you would think that the deed would be delivered immediately after it’s been signed and notarized.
Regarding One Bal Harbour. Assuming there is no “financial engineering” going on with the closings number, could the upside surprise in the closings have to do with the size of the unit deposits? Looking at the 2003 pre-sale price sheets. It looks like the average unit cost 2.2 million+. A 20% deposit would be $440K+. No matter your situation, walking away from a deposit that size can’t be easy.
On a related note, regardless of the final closings number, isn’t % up for resale much more telling? With units still needing to close, One Bal Harbour is showing 86 units for sale out of 260. One Bal Harbour: 86/260 Blue: 77/330 Icon South Beach: 44:290. Considering most pundits have negative outlooks on Blue and Icon due to the unit overhang, I’m not sure what that says about One Bal Harbour’s near future.
The following link dated November 07 shows plans for skyscrapers directly behind (west) of TMP. Does anyone know the validity or reality of these plans? see link: http://bobmiami.com/2007/11/06/parkwest-and-falcone-further-considered/
RA
I agree with spending the additional dollars to customize your unit. I would do the same. (I like the white glass tile) I just do not want to over pay for a unit with cement floors and an unusable bidet because it is separate from the toilet. All of these issues may have been acceptable in 2004 but not anymore. That is why there are 58 MLS listings plus 30 developer units for sale and 45 units listed for lease. My guess is that a majority of those units are bare bone in appearance if not still with paint spattered cement floors. They probably don’t want to spend $50k+ more to finish their unit.
I want to be clear with my intentions:
I like the over-all style of TMP and expect prices to come down by as much as 20% from where they are today on 7 line. If they do then I may buy as a second home. Right now I am trying to research the park west neighborhood plans, Museum park plans, i-395 and tunnel plans and understand all of the issues with TMP. If anyone has additional information regarding these topics or is a TMP owner or potential owner then I welcome further discussion by e-mail: [email protected] or IM. Yahoo IM: ghussey or AOL IM: ghu4917145. Please identify yourself and intentions when sending messages. If prices don’t come down on TMP then I will identify and investigate other projects.
I think prices at TMp will come done 30% to 40% from what they are now, all dependng on how the developer adresses the finished that still need to be completed. To actually live there parking is a real big concern when I show the units there people really dont like the fact that you can only valet and the parking garage is so narrow. WHen you go up to the units the hallways are aweful, they should at least paint them a little bit or add some finished so they dont look so bad. The hallways are oretty drak and have a cold feeling. The units especially the ones with 20 foot ceilings are nice except they are not too practical because the kitchen is more for show and you cant store much (comments from clients) Other than that I think the bulding will stabilize when the La Prarie Spa opens and oif and when the developer does all the finishes and the building looks good.