Top 5 Miami Distressed Condo Sales Closed in October 2008
November 16, 2008 by Lucas Lechuga
- Skyline on Brickell - unit 2505 - 1 bedroom/1 bath (791 square feet) - This unit sold for $200,000, or $253 per square foot, on October 28, 2008. Foreclosure
- Vue at Brickell - unit 1501 - 2 bedroom/2 bath (1,255 square feet) - This unit sold for $170,000, or $135 per square foot, on October 17, 2008. Foreclosure
- Jade at Brickell - unit 504 - 1 bedroom/1 bath (895 square feet) - This unit sold for $220,000, or $246 per square foot, on October 24, 2008. Foreclosure
- Solaris at Brickell Bay - unit 1607 - 1 bedroom/1 bath (730 square feet) - This unit sold for $146,000, or $200 per square foot, on October 24, 2008. Foreclosure
- Courvoisier Courts - unit 704 - 2 bedroom/2.5 bath (1,230 square feet) - This unit sold for $290,000, or $236 per square foot, on October 22, 2008. Foreclosure
Runner-up: Jade - unit 3509 - 2 bedroom/3 bath (1,730 square feet) - This unit sold for $710,000, or $410 per square foot, on October 13, 2008. Foreclosure
Does Jade 3509 has either a direct or partial bay view?
Direct view. Take a look at the pictures by clicking on its link.
compared to a year ago, these are great prices. but today, look for 1B at $100k and 2B at $150k on the low end. $200k for a 2B is history. and rentals are also dropping like bricks as well. lucas, could you give us any info on the number of units sold over the past month or so? my best guess is next to nothing, but curious.
gables,
I’m going to try to post a new Brickell Condo Index this upcoming week. That will show the number of closed sales within the past month for each building in Brickell.
Lucas,
Any news on what’s happening with Everglades on the Bay? I hear that closings have started.
I agree with gables. What looks good today won’t seem like a good deal in 6 moths.
We are too far from the bottom to be jumping in. The buildings have HOA collection problems, so the risk it’s still high even if prices are lower. Good post otherwise Lucas.
I think we will start seeing a lot more of the “intentional foreclosures” in the near future. They have been going strong now in California so I anticipate a lot more to come in Florida… Just what we need, people with the ability to honor their mortgage commitments deciding not to and sticking there mistakes onto others…..where or where has the moral hazard gone? Oh I know, it died about 2 weeks ago…..
i dont think the foreclosures have even come close the the numbers we will see in the future. banks are deliberately delaying foreclosures. my guess is to hold off on paying tax and HOA fees, and to see what if any bailout comes along which may benefit them in the long run.
some trends i have started to see in the past year. typically you will have common units listed for both rent and sale. these are not foreclosures, but they will be soon. these units are at the low end of the rental scale, and also typically offer cheap and/or short sale as well. these units will all become foreclosures in the next year. add those to the number of units in a building already in foreclosure to see how bad the building will get. and more units on the dual rental/sale list enter the market every month. i have also seen a number of rental units on the market for an extended period of time-over 120 days. any rental on the market that long is most likely headed to foreclosure as well.
The deals with Jade look good however…..
-still would be hesitant to buy in the buidling due to its reputation for mortgage fraud
-last I heard (August 08), banks had blacklisted the building and no mortgages were being written there (all cash deals only)
-threat of looming assessments (any idea on how big they could be? insiders know anything about this?)
Just saw on another website, closing data for some Sunny Isles Beach condos:
Trump Tower I: started closings on 1/8/2008 has had 53.1% close.
Trump Tower II: started closings on 7/30/2008 has had 5.9% close.
These numbers are as of 9/28/2008.
TTI actually had more closings than I expected. But since there are three towers the closing rate on the project so far, even though closings haven’t started on TTIII yet, are at less than 20%. This will be an interesting project to watch for sure. TTI never seems to have even 5% of the lights on and some very very bored valets.
Looks like a lot for sale and for rent. This project, Trump Towers SIB, is going to dump a ton on the market……a ton! Heck, looks like some good rental deals, maybe I’ll move…..oh, the true luxury and carefree lifestyle of a renter….sample buildings at will at bargain prices! 🙂 LOL Seriously, never would have even thought about being a renter a year ago……..it sure beats owning in this market! I keep thinking, if things get really ugly they will have a 2 for 1 sale soon……….
Good price of $400/sf for a direct bayview in Jade.
BUT……
Taxes per month $2523 (At an assessed value of 1.37 Million Dollars)
Killer HOA fees of $1405
ie. $3928/month of taxes and HOA over and above the Mortgage.
I know the crazy HOA’s are the own fault of Jade. But these obscene taxes must go too. Does any elected official has any shame left what so ever to justify 30,281/year taxes for just a flat?
Renter Tom,
Read the SIB article in today’s Miami Herald.
#12 – If you want more govt, vote in big govt, don’t complain about the high taxes AJ. This is just the start, just the start indeed. Most people become republicans when they start really paying taxes…we should tax the college kids instead of giving them low cost loans so they will stop voting for big govt! LOL
Visionary – A big thanks for the heads up on that article. It is pretty much on target (except maybe the 64 y.o. with a 3 y.o. son (should be grandson?) and most are condos, not condo-hotels, and the completed Jade BEACH, not Ocean from what I understand). I have found SIB to be civil, mixed ages with a lot of families, people from all over not just NY and NJ. It doesn’t really have any club scene. The area has a lot of potential to mow down old retail and put up new retail buildings like at the St. Tropez that is being built but it will take time and is going from a more lazy vacation town to a more upscale destination. So far so good. But there sure is a lot of inventory…
I was told that when a financial institution takes title to a condo they are responsible for only one months condo fees. Can someone confirm this?
[email protected],
6 months
Realtor AJ, do you have any other real estate tips for us? I’m sure that from your experience as a Realtor you’ve learned a lot….
What’s the latest on Onyx on the Bay guys? Is it facing special assessments? Anyone renting there? I need some scoop.
Bently by the Bay South has a 1/1 for $284,900. Doesn’t that look cheap to these downtown units in general?
Great article on the Fontainebleau in Time magazine. Will have to go take a look and maybe stay there for the fun of it. This will probably be a terrible investment for whoever owns it so we should all say thanks to them. Bubbles always produce some amazing things and investing $1B into an existing structure is impressive (assuming that really is what they spent….probably less but makes for a good headline splash). I enjoy good architecture so look forward to seeing this in person. But $1B….they overpaid….
The Fontainebleau is nice & not badly price compared to South Beach but if you’re a vacationer in Miami the location can be tough. There is nothing to walk to & after a week of taking cabs down to South Beach restaurants etc it gets old.
Miami, and Florida in general, is getting some competition in this global economy….
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20081117/ARTICLE/311179998/2055/NEWS?Title=Costa_Rica_lures_new_wave_of_retirees
What do you think about lower end condos in Sunny Isles like 2bd in $150-200k range? Are there a lot of foreclosures there? How much do you think prices will come down in that area?
All these buildings have been blacklisted by bank, mortgage companies and mortgage insurance companies. They aren’t a bargain at these prices. Even if you happen to be an all cash buyer the risks of living in any of these buildings is simply too high. I would ask the condo board president to attend the next meeting, and get minutes from the past board meeting before even considering one of these buildings.
Yikes! Help!
A few weeks back after touring my building at Everglades I posted here that although there were a few minor issues with my aprt interior that I was pleased overall with the building especially awesome gym pool amenities area. People asked me to post any progress reports. I recently received a closing package from the developer and a scheduled closing date of Dec. 30th. My problem is and my question to any others who may have run into this problem that the apart size was always advertised in their literature as 2 bdrm 1200 sq. feet. In none of the condo docs I received was the sq. feet listed anywhere. I thought that the apart looked a little small when I toured, but now for the first time in amended condo docs that came just recently with my closing date they for the first time list the sq. feet for each unit in the building with the standard caveat that if I believe I am harmed or believe any new amended changes are material that I have a 15 day rescision right. Now -the difference in the sq. ft as originally listed at 1200 Sq .feet and the new one is 1062 sq. feet. However they claim on that same page that interior columns or load bearing columns were subtracted from the unit area. My problem is that even though I knew there were two load bearing columns in one room they were hidden in the closet or behind the drywall unexposed. But I cant imagine these columns account for 140 missing Sq feet. Am I wrong? What am I missing here. Any Opinions or advice is appreciated.
Also on my apart tour I was terribly disappointed to find in the living room area on the left side wall from the ceiling down about one foot and out another one foot is what i believe is called a soffet where the hardware for the sprinklers in that area are hidden as opposed to the sprinkler hardware hidden in either the ceiling or behind a wall. Was this their way of doing on the cheap or what explanation could they have for this unsightly design
RT
I can confirm FB spent over a billion.
Clark,
This happened to a friend of mine at Quantum. She raised a STINK before she closed and was able to negoitate the price down. She even got her realtor to reduce his commission to cover some of the price reduction. She also has successfully got it rented even though the view sucks and the square footage is like a hotel room.
Quick put on Channel 7 WSVN. They are about to tour Icon. This should be amusing.
Thanks lala
Keith, I closed on a unit at Onyx on the Bay and haven’t heard anything about any special assessments. There’s still some work being done on the roof terrace but generally it’s done. The hallways are finally being refinished and the views are awesome. Best of all I paid the right price. Are you looking to rent or buy? If it’s to buy then stick to the 02, 03, or 04 lines. There are two high floor units (03 line) for rent that just got finished by a couple of my buddies. Good luck!
You’re welcome, what does your realtor say? That’s who I would speak to first…I would also try somehow to find out if anyone else is cognizant of this, there’s power in numbers, especially people who have purchased within your line.
Sorry for the multiple posts, figure out what you paid per square foot, then deduct the difference in psf for the difference in square footage. So say if you paid 300psf x 140 sf difference=price you want off.
Grant, do you have any info on units for sale at Onyx? Thanks.
Alex – I don’t know since I haven’t been in those buildings but from what I have heard the Plaza of the Americas has one bedrooms under $100K. Granted I drove by them once so can’t speak to them at all but understand that they were built in the 70’s and at peak the one bedrooms were selling for over $200K. Also, probably a lot of rentals there too. I was in the all rental (claim 5 stars) Intercostal Yacht Club or whatever it is called to vote and it looked decent (5 star may be debatable though). A one bedroom on the beach for $200K probably is not going to happen in SIB that I am aware of. Sorry that I couldn’t be more helpful.
Clark, you actually should ask for more than the purchase price per sq ft times the reduced living area. in my opion, there is a big difference between a 1050 sq ft condo and a 1200 sq ft condo. I will not buy a 2B at under 1100 sq ft-just too small. you essentially bought one less small room (den perhaps) than you bargained for. i dont mind when renting, but if you buy for long term living you will want all the space you can get. these back door moves by developers is really unethical. room sizes are known well before the first shovel digs into the ground.
Gables,
Doesn’t hurt to try, but what I quoted will be more realistic…I know my friend tried to remove herself from the contract period based on that discrepancy and was unsuccessful. Go for the sun I guess and settle for the moon.
Clark
If I were you I would cancel, then come back in six months and buy at a 20-30% discount. Fur Real
la la,
i understand what you are saying. still it is bad when deep pockets can do wrong, deliberately, and get away with scamming and fraud. funny how that is illegal yet you will be unable to get a court of law to uphold decency.
Lucas,
any chance you could add a couple of buildings to your listings. 55 merrick in coral gables is new and of interest. also appears that mark on brickell is now missing? can it be returned? thanks for all the hard work. your site is great!
A good article about foreclosures from CA:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20081116-9999-1n16littlelake.html
Somehow, I feel no pity. When one guy extracts $380K over three years “for his jewelry and getaways to Acapulco and the Philippines.” Or “Like Alvarez, several people who pulled equity out of their Little Lake properties say they spent it on business expenses or mortgage payments. Only when prodded, and in one case reminded, did they acknowledge using the money to buy a timeshare, new cars and jewelry. The most common response to the question of how the money was spent was: “To pay bills.” Many could not remember what those bills were for.” Let them fail, let the foreclosures come. All involved were greedy and knew at some level it was too good to be true…no go out and actually help create value in our economy.
I realize that more govt oversight would have helped, but ultimately, a con man is a con man, a cheat is a cheat, and fraud is a fraud. We can’t have the police looking over our shoulders all the time in order to do the right thing. Democracy depends on a moral populace…without it we are doomed to live in a police state. It is just so sad the harm and pain this mess has and will cause over the next few years especially to those that weren’t involved in real estate at all.
I spoke to a guy in the mortgage and real estate investment business today. Nice guy, was fairly up front about things, he predicts a ton more foreclosures are on the way in the Miami condo market. He seemed to have a good grasp of the area and what has been happening. I was waiting for some BS type of stuff but didn’t get too much of that, when I countered him on a few major market matters, he seemed to open up and tell me a lot more about what really has been going on and became a lot more candid. We’re not even half way through yet. It is going to be a tough 2009 for many…and that is really very unfortunate.
RT
Yeap.
Shame, I really want to buy too.
But I can wait.
Is it just me, or do other people remember that pre 1997 you could actually buy a property and make money on it as a rental?
You know, like you really did not have to sell it, you were not buying to sell.
Thanks
DJ, Approximately 75 units have been sold out of 118. The 75 units support the fees, etc (including reserve) for the whole building but it’s meant a slower rollout of the building finishes. I recommend that you see it as the views from the units are spectacular. The o4 line is my favorite but the 03 and 02 lines are excellent as well. For whatever reason some of the sales have not been reported properly. Example: I know the owner of penthouse 2701 (beautiful place) moved in months ago. I think there’s an issue with the unit # as the developer calls it LPH1 and 2701.
Anyway, I feel that it’s a bargain offering that’s been derisked considerably from 6 months ago. For example the halls were always intended to be redone following 70 units being moved into, so this is now happening floor by floor all the way up. The garden terrace should have been done months ago and is only now being started; but I spoke to the builder and he’s received and cleared his advance check. Things are moving along and the building is stable, just very much behind schedule. The valet parking is no longer though.
There are some higher units available for rent which are not presently for sale, but were purchased by investors who I am sure would entertain an offer. I suggest that you speak to Lucas. Good luck!
FYI – nterview in Forbes, Steve Forbes interviews Don Peebles, the successful real estate entrepreneur:
“Forbes: Do you see big differences in regions of the country where you think some are harder hit than others, or some may come back quicker than others in this thing?
Peebles: Yeah, I do. I see we’re actually in two markets that I think are probably the worst two markets for residential, for sure, and that is Las Vegas and South Florida. South Florida was overbuilt. And you take Miami, for example, on the condo side: In downtown Miami alone, almost 50,000 new units were built during this market cycle. And that’s not a center of employment. I think it’s their values have plummeted, 60%, 70%.
Forbes: Wow.
Peebles: And then they have a bigger problem: that many of these condo buildings, the owners who are in foreclosure, or the banks who have them, are not paying condo fees. And so you have this small number of people in the buildings that are having to carry the operation of the whole building. And so the building’s getting a little bit more run-down and has greater financial problems. So buyers are even more reluctant to buy, so that pushes value down.
I think that market doesn’t recover for five to seven years, maybe even a bit longer. Las Vegas: good, strong fundamentals–still 8,000 people a month moving there. It’s producing thousands of new jobs. Clark County is expected to have an increase in population of 1.25 million new residents by the year 2025.
So I see that coming back sooner because they’ve got a very strong, diverse economic base. I see Washington, D.C., is down. The government never gets smaller, so I think Washington’s safe. And I think New York’s safe. New York’s the greatest city in the world. It’s the epicenter of capitalism. And it’ll rebound. And I think New York real estate’s probably the safest real estate in the country.”
DJ,
You are getting advice from Grant!!!. This is the same person who said a year ago,that the best advice is to buy on Onyx on the bay because of the view!!!. This is the same person who said that a group from England is baying 40 units???. Forget about Onyx on the Bay,the building is not finish. A friend of mine is reting for $1250 a month(8th floor),and eventhoug is the cheepest new building in the area,he is looking forward to December 31,2008 (end of contract)since nathing is working properly in the building.
The developers are having problems with the land on Onyx02(two blocks north) because a hard lending copany(Kennedy Funding) is suing them .
Realtor AJ,
Can you give me some stock picks?
I want to buy the opposite position in whatever you suggest so lay it on me.
Now, now, Christopher, you know AJ only “invests” in real estate…. And these things, unlike a dividend paying stock need to be fed each month. But don’t worry, the price appreciation will more than make up for the negative monthly dividend, after all, Suzanne research this and she assured him that he can do this….or was that NAR commercial just marketing? I don’t know, get so confused sometimes on whether I should rent or buy before I’m priced out of the market…..Maybe I should call Suzanne and haver research if for me…
Sounds to me like Mo is back.
Lucas: Thanks for the post and these are definitely showing where the market is going.
A small analysis:
There are 47 listings in MLS for Skyline and the units have been in the market for a long time. I have a tough time believing that with all this new construction being completed, that prices there will hold at $240/sf. That building doesn’t have the best finishes/amenities (I believe it was built as a rental) and it cannot compete with other buildings.
Same thing with Curvoisier Courts… 45 listings with plenty of units having cut their listing prices over 40% with long stays in the market.
Got to see prices get to $200psf here (at least)
Grant/Guillero,
I’m really just doing my research at the moment, but looking to buy sooner rather than later. Mt current lease is up in April, so I would ideally like to find a place by then, but if not, I don’t mind going month-to-month until I find the right place. So far the building I liked the most was The Lexi in North Bay Village, but closing/occupancy rates there have made me take pause. I haven’t heard too much about Onyx, but I figure it’s at least worth looking into. I’m aware that prices will probably fall more in the next 6 months to 1 year, but I’m looking for a premium unit with great views, and I think these units will hold their value and not drop as substantially as the majority of units on the market.