Contact Us
Call Us At: 305-428-3860
Hablamos Español
MESSAGE US
OR EMAIL US
"*" indicates required fields
Global Settings
language
currency
units of measurement
Wow, really puts Pace Park to shame. The fact that no hobos were murdered here is also a plus! LOL! Looks like south beach wins again.
What a waste of lando though. That’s perfectly good condo land right there. Somebody call old man Tibor Hollo or Jorgie Perez. This is a travesty!
I’ve walked portions of the bayfront walk 2 years ago but now it’s nice to see this completed. All Miami waterfront should be this accessable.
I was toying with exploring South of 5th for a while, now I have another good reason to do just that……… Looks nice. Where did that AJ go, perhaps he got mugged, shoulda bought near this park instead!
The Bayside path that starts at South Pointe Park ends at the new Capri devlopment, which I toured recently. It’s got a lot of pizzazz, but sales seem to be very slow. Anyone got an opinion about Capri as a good or bad buy?
One of the best parks you will ever find, particularly late in the afternoon as the cruise ships pass by.
Another good thing about this park is that they close it down nightly at 12am I believe. Therefore, no homeless people will set up shop here.
BTW – who is the clown in the 4th picture doing push ups? lol
They’ve had a murder in this park. It’s just like every other park in America. Is the pier is still fenced off to prevent the hooligans from jumping off it? Did “MSG” claim the park yet?
Can someone check up on AJ?
He has been M.I.A. Lately. Wasn’t he rooming with strangers in miami the last time he checked in? Gesh, I sure hope he is not sleeping in some nut’s freezer.
I assume you mean MS-13…….lol.
I went out a few weekends ago to visit the park and they were charging $15 for parking unless you were a MB resident.
Pace park doesnt do that.
Wowser-found this park last week and it is beautifully laid out landscaped and overflows with first rate waterviews; on a par with the park at Coal Harbor Vancouver BC that many urban planners call one of the finest .
If you want to talk about finely appointed then lookno further than jade beach. In regards to aj, I belive he is on a Mumbai gameshow where he can win 20 million rupees and the love of his dear Latika. That AJ is a clever one. He won’t be a slumdog for long!
I call dibs on Latika!
I BEG YOUR PARDON…………thats AJ doing push ups in the 4th picture.I believe thats LARA his new found friend watching over him .
AJ must be pretty upset that he can’t take up residency in SOUTH BEACH PARK.It’s a long walk back home to PACE PARK………leave the poor guy alone…he dosen’t want to admit that RENTER TOM was right all along.
Seriously though, comparing South Pointe Park to Pace Park is ridiculous. Obviously you guys wanna jump on the bandwaggon and try to make fun of AJ, but compare apples to apples.
What a waste of water front property, imagine how many more Condo’s could have been built!
“It’s gorgeous to walk along the bay on a wide boardwalk with a marina on one side and beautiful condos on the other.”
Beautiful Condos! Ha! You can tell a REALTOR wrote this. Hey Lucas, actually it would be much more beautiful if zoning only allowed for low-rise structures. How the hell is a 45-story monstrosity looming over you (and taking your sunlight) “beautiful”?
Just like Jaws from the movies, I cannot be destoyed. I will haunt all of you to your graves and beyond….. 1800 Club forever! Pace Park out!
Yawn, been there, done that (many times over). I told a few weeks ago about how beautiful this park is and exhorted everyone to visit. Never seen anything as spectacular. Something that comes close to this is Hudson River Park especially at the Battery Park City in Summer. But SP park trumps everything as you can enjoy it year long.
Makes me think, not M.I.A., Back in NYC. No interesting or intelligent chatter for the past few days on this blog that would have prompted me to chime in.
I am waiting for Lucas to post the Grand Opening of Paramount Bay. That could shake up things a little bit (or maybe a lot). I think Paramount Bay will buck the trend. It is a spectacular project and it will definitely outperform Epic, Marquis and any other recently opened building all put together. It will be a cause celeb.
Richard JM,
Capri took a very, very, VERRRRRY long time to build after the foundation was laid. I’d be leery because it seems like worked stopped at multiple points in the build and would suspect corners were cut along the way.
Word is some of these beach condo projects may get bought out and turned into timeshares….seriously. Jade Ocean apparently barely got under glass and don’t have enough $$$ to finish…..Fortune, the developer, is apparently going or is BK.
“I think Paramount Bay will buck the trend. It is a spectacular project and it will definitely outperform Epic, Marquis and any other recently opened building all put together. It will be a cause celeb.”
Oh god you have got to be joking.. but seriously what are you smoking?
Thank you for taking the time to share this. It is greatly appreciated. You raise some very interesting points. Great photos by the way!
Prices in Paramount Bay are already increased by 18% since January. Wait, did I say increased? I meant to say that 90% of people walked away from their deposits.
But seriously, Paramount Bay is a spectacular investment if your idea of spectacular is your balls being crushed by a cinder block. I kid, I kid.
I heard Warren Buffet is investing in Miami condos (Note: Miami condos is code for Chinese auto companies)
homeless are ok, besides they live in starbucks – its the sobe cuban cops you have to be careful of
i hear they arrest innocent tourists because of minor traffic violations
Off topic but this is an interesting article on the Omni Mall development. It would be nice to see that project get done.
Omni Mall developer seeks $7M from Miami for $95M project
aj, check out my old hood, peck slip. front st/near seaport 10038
Homes/condos had gone from housing expenses to “investments” and now back to housing expenses…
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/business/20shop.html?_r=1&hpw
“Sales at Saks stores open at least a year, a measure of retail health known as same-store sales, declined 27.6 percent in first quarter, which ended May 2.”
– Yes, AJ, the wealthy are different. They are being hurt more in this recession than everyone else since most of it was phantom wealth…..
AJ, glad to hear you are not M.I.A.
I too thought of the comparison to battery park in Manhattan. I went to check out the park last month in SB but the lot was full and didn’t feel like looking for parking but i got to see a small part of it. I will be back in SB next month so I will try to take that walk from 5th to the park on the bayside. Looks like a good place to just chill out and slow down.
speaking of the rich check this out from the wall st journal today
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124268209889631903.html
sak’s numbers are not good but bunch of retailers are doing some business
drew299 – “bunch of retailers are doing some business”
Listen to Davidowitz from yesterday….he’s a pretty darn good retail analyst with decades of experience….
http://podcast.mktw.net/audio/20090518/rnrdavidowitz051809/rnrdavidowitz051809.mp3
Not to get off subject but I figured this would get Aj back in the mix…As I believe I Am starting to hear the fat lady warming up her voice. As the first of what will surely be the next hammer to drop has just been purchased by the federal Government for about 10 million dollars.-lol
I just received information of a new website begun by one of the residents in Ten Museum park looking to suit the developer:Join me and other owners at 10 Museum Park in our quest to take legal action against the developer who sold us on a building that has fallen short on every promise.
“Our lifestyle as well as our investments have taken a very big turn for the worse. Together, we can make a difference. Sign up now as we get closer to change. Spread the word to your neighbors that we have organized.”
“The good news is that our support is growing daily. We’ve had an overwhelming response from many of our neighbors who are tired and want CHANGE!” check it out at: http://www.10MPactionnow.com
Not that this is a surprise as I have commented previously in regard to the less than satisfactory finishes, the cheap materials used, and the ammenities never realized as the dirty laundry list would take me all day to include here-In any case I can’t wait for this hammer to drop as I know of other situations that are in the same state just not as along as the TMP project-2yrs pretty pathetic…Goes to prove the saying that I tell my clients “let the buyer beware” and in the Miami Condo world you had better be very well aware!
Take a look at the following article:
Corus Bank ordered to submit capital plan http://southflorida.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2009/05/18/daily25.html?page=1
There has been so much talk about foreclosures that people didn’t consider whole banks going into receivership and the FDIC selling the loans at a heavy discount. This is a clear example of what is happening in the market for bulk sales and discount notes.
Banks are not willing to lower their price expectations to sell these non performing notes and therefore get stuck in these situations.
“The bank has since filed a foreclosure lawsuit in Miami-Dade County Circuit Court against the developer of the 118-unit Onyx on the Bay condo, which has 41 unsold units. The original loan was for $44.1 million.
Other major Corus-financed projects in South Florida include:
Jade Ocean Condominiums in Sunny Isles Beach
Paramount Bay in Miami
The Mint at Riverfront in Miami
Trump International Hotel and Tower in Fort Lauderdale
Caribbean Miami Beach
Infinity at Brickell in Miami
The Ivy in Miami
AJ, so much for Paramount Bay bucking the trend… My guess is that you will not see more than 10% closings and someone will end up buying this note from the FDIC at a very cheap discount which will kill pricing in the area
Found this elsewhere:
First Qtr. Sales Miami Beach South Beach (south of fifth street)
Number of Sales $PSF 1st qtr. o9 $PSF 2008
Apogee – (one) $1209. $1354.
Continuum S. (one) $856. $1074.
Continuum N. (five) $875. $929.
Icon (three) $533. $724.
Murano (two) $1175. $829.
Murano Grande (four) $500. $638.
Portofino (two) $500. $676.
S. Point Tower (zero) $ N/A $619.
Yacht Club (two) $545. $548.
Condo Swindler,
My heart goes out to those who bought a product that they do not know how it would turn out and ended up with a bad product. Before I bought my unit, I have been researching for over 2 years on Locations, buildings, the City, Amenities etc. And when I did buy, I had to look, feel and touch to see what I was buying and last but not the least, how are the building financials and the HOA are. Granted, not everyone had such time and luxury and sheer coincidence and luck. But it is a bit too late now. I don’t know what TMP residents are hoping to achieve out of this. Sue the developer who is long gone? In any case what is promised on the brochure is not required to be delivered and the developer has a great leeway in that regard. The grounds and landscaping around TMP (and to an extent MB, 900 and Marquis) are a lot to be desired. That maybe because they do not have an inch of land to landscape. And BTW who in their right mind would buy in a building that only has valet parking?! I would laugh at their face if they tell me there is no self parking in a building. Even now how many of you will actually go to the garage and see the assigned parking space before you buy a flat? Not many I guess, but I do. So buyer beware. If you blindly buy something without doing your homework, there is very little anyone else can do to mitigate your misery.
Kraemer great stats keep em coming-as I am interested to see just how low they will go!!! Especially on High end units as Miami Beach is hurting as far as RAM numbers go for over 1mm $ properties…
AJ-I knew that my poost would rattle some feathers and get you back in the game as I have so much more info as an owner in several buildings downtown are concerned-I might even post some off the cuff pictures of what “the neighborhood” is really like to live in as you are beyond wisdom when it comes to the “promises promises” I have heard and even been a part of-as wasnt isnt this an old 80’s nightmare song…I can quote many other songs here but to say that I am torn between two lovers is an understatement as youll just have to wait for my book-The magic city-dont be a fool!!!! due out next winter…youll be amazed at what I have found out and what will be as pertainsd to what will be deemed the great Condo crash of 2006!!!
oh and why does your heart go out its all about business my fellow interested blogger nothing more nothing less if you feel bad your a fool, as again you seem to get it as far as diligence and so many more should get it-
Post #37
The Ace said that it would go as low as $125 and I’ve seen nothing in the economy, job market, real estate market especially Miami or the Obama Nation no make me think otherwise.
And Where is “ACE” now????He’s NO LONGER around to back up his predictions.
Any thoughts on 1060 Brickell?
Heart goes out because these are not flippers. Flippers either took a walk or don’t care about these issues that much. Some end users bought these flats preconstruction to live in them and their gripes are justified. Some got lucky and bought into a good building either by due diligence or sheer coincidence. Others didn’t.
The best thing going for all the potential buyers here is that this blog lays thread bare all the pitfalls of buying in each of the 50 odd downtown buildings. Even after this if someone makes the wrong decision, then it is completely their own fault.
THE SMART MONEY IS STILL RENTING.And will continue to until the market bottoms out (maybe 4-5 years) any comments on this?
This site sure has a lot of interesting contributers.
Renter Tom enjoys being a renter as people went from seeing housing as an expense to an investment and back to an expense. Renter Tom no longer runs into people saying that you will make money by simply owning a condo…the silly “condo as an investment” talk is finally gone. Does that mean the bottom is near??? Nope, we gotta ways to go with condos as the risk of buying into a building that is not 100% rock solid financially with stable ownership is still very very large.
Renter Tom rarely sees even 15 units with lights on in the entire Trump Towers, that’s all three towers folks. Five lights on in Jade Beach is notable. Oh the pain is yet to come for these projects……
Oh, and this can’t be good…
“Japan’s GDP Declines at 15.2% Annual Rate”
– Iceland is out, Ireland is in serious pain with enormous govt deficits, China has a hard landing, Japan is nearing depression levels, France is well….it has stable socialism despite being anemic for decades, and the list goes on…..
500,000-700,000 jobs lost each month in the US…..the real pain is here and continues as predicted. Incomes stagnant or “zero” if lost job, enthusiasm for real estate is dead, and the wealthy are scared. Means there aren’t a lot of $1M condo buyers out there…..
What do you guys think about Continuum North, which is right next to South Pointe Park discussed in this thread? Prices seem to be strong compared to a lot of other buildings, but, in a building with 203 units, MLS shows something like 50 units for sale and another 40-50 units for rent (some are listed for sale *and* for rent, so the exact number of units on the market right now is unclear). I’m guessing even more units might be available but aren’t listed; seems like very few of the high-floor (and presumably highest-price) units seem to be on the market right now.
I have no doubt Miami Beach condo prices will continue to fall, but I’m curious what people here have to say about the building — price predictions for next 6-12 months, feedback about the building itself (pros and cons), etc.
This is a great site. Thanks very much.
Continuum North still has about 42 units of the 203 units owned by the developer according the miami-dade property records website.
Most of the floorplans are oddly designed. Like the small 3 bedroom design with 4 different small balconies (instead of one big wrap around like apogee or cont 1). Or the one bedroom plus den plan, but the den is right near the door like a big closet with no windows.
The amenities are top notch and can’t be beat by any other building. Nor can the location. Association Dues are very high, but at least this building offers a lot for your money. The health club is like a private gym one would pay for and you also have beach service with chairs/towels all included.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the job loss numbers that people keep posting are pretty misleading IMO. I think most of these losses are in sectors where the people wouldn’t be in the market for luxury condos…..blue collar, manufacturing jobs, etc. I don’t think the losses have been nearly as pervasive in the professional sector. Not saying the white collar crowd hasn’t been hit, quite to the contrary, but I think these massive job loss numbers don’t paint an accurate picture of the pool of poeple that would be in the market to buy a fancy condo.
Renter Tom,
There are a lot of investors in Miami. Good deals get multiple bids. It is not just in Miami but in other parts of Florida as well. For the most part we are talking about short sales and foreclosures.
Dj you’re right about the job numbers being wrong but your conclusion is off. Physicians at a wealthy ny hospital took an across the board 15% pay cut. Only lawyers are doing better because misery creates an environment where lawyers can thrive (tibor hollo sues Lucas cause he’s pissed he’s losing millions for example)
Laura will you just go bankrupt already!
Laura are you in market for 800k to 3 million dollar condos? If not just shut up with the deals already. RenterTom is not in the market for trash like you.
M3, on a micro level, sure….those physicians at that particular hospital took at paycut. Even so, I think most of those physicians have either the disposable income, or at least the credit to buy a home if they were in the market for one….especially if they came across what seemed like a deal. When the market corrects….housing, credit, jobs, etc, those places that they bought (hopefully near the bottom) will begin appreciating again. Not to mention once inflation sets in.
Overall though, I haven’t heard about massive job losses in the professional sector, leading me to believe these aggregate job loss numbers are skewed. I’m a lawyer and my firm is doing better than ever…..like you said. My little brother is just about to finish med school, and he told me the job market for new doctors is doing fine. I think if people have the means, and are in the market for a new home, a lot of them are starting to look for deals right now.
southbeachsand — Thanks very much for the feedback. Very interesting. I had been under the mistaken impression — based on a comment posted on one of these Miami r.e. sites — that Continuum North had achieved 100% closings and that everything was now on a resale basis. After scrolling through the list of owners at the Miami-Dade property records site, it looks like upwards of 100 units are owned by the developer or investors. Perhaps they’re deep-pocketed investors who are willing to wait, but it seems like prices should fall with 50% (or more) of the building apparently available.
DJ — You might be right about the demographics of most job losses in the U.S., but remember that a very large portion of Miami buyers always have been from outside the country, and both Latin America and Europe are getting hammered in this downturn as well. At the height of the r.e. boom I recall reading that something like 30-50% of all Miami pre-construction sales were to buyers from Latin America, but I just scrolled through the Continuum owner list and saw no more than five Hispanic-looking names out of 215 units.
With sales so slow at even the most premium buildings, I just don’t get the sense there are that many people in the market right now with $1 million or more to spend. (Or, perhaps there are people with $1M-plus to spend, but the owner-investors of the $1M-plus units are the least desperate to sell and slower to offer discounts, so the market is at a standstill. Just from reading these sites, it seems the high-end unit prices have fallen much slower than the middle- and lower-tier units.)
DJ – Several large law firms in Chicago have gone bankrupt and are out of business. Moreover, hiring at law firms has come to a stop and people are being let go. My attorney has a practice that is pretty isolated from the bad economy but he tells me tales of woe about other lawyers and law firms. I also know of several hospitals that put in across the board pay cuts and doctors who did elective type surgeries (including cosmetic) that are hurting…..and dentists are slow cutting one or two days back in the work week or going half days for some. Then look at Wall Street. Bankers lost jobs….. I would say the wealth destruction on the affluent is pretty darn substantial. Also know of partners at large accounting firms being let go….. So, anyway, I have to disagree that the economy isn’t causing major changes in the white collar world. With respect to the blue collar world in the states of Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana……ouch! They are going to hurt for a decade or more!
Also, the people I talk to that thought of housing as an investment, only think of it in terms of being able to buy at 30¢ on the dollar……the enthusiasm is long gone for buying up homes as they have returned to the expense category. The mentality has shifted back to housing as an expense now……. The housing as an investment (not talking about traditional rental income analysis) is dead dead dead.
Joe – Those hanger oners were ones in denial that are bag holders. They want out and their wishing prices are just that…wishes. I know several people that are multiple unit owner….one guy with about 20…..he is losing millions and is now willing to take the hit and get out…….he used a lot of leverage but also had the $$$ money to back it up to make the payments….however, he is trying desperately to sell at the amount of the outstanding mortgage without additional cash out of pocket….I’ve told him “good luck” with that. These multiple condo unit owners are starting to hit the door to get out of their positions but most are too late and can’t sell since they would need to bring cash to the closing table. Just in the last month or so I have sensed a change that people want out, out, out….the denial is over for most. Sure some owners can hang on but it makes them sick to shell out $2K-$5K each month PER UNIT for HOA dues and taxes…..even if rich they don’t like to feel stupid.
Also, look to the MASSIVE mortgage resets coming up through mid-2012 (yes, 2012). And all indications are the defaults of these mortgages will be worse than sub-prime and those conclusions were drawn without reference to the higher unemployment numbers we are experiencing…..check out the orange cumulative line going up through mid-2012 before flattening out. What will the effects of this be on other homes that don’t have resets??? Not good.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pMscxxELHEg/ShQKBEyAORI/AAAAAAAAFTM/03RNGrH9sEA/s1600-h/CreditSuisseResetMarch09.jpg
Moreover, that graph indicates months to reset….hence if foreclosures take 12 months that would mean the bulk of this mess would still be occurring through 2013……. no joke people.
Renter Tom — Very interesting. As someone who hopes to buy in the SoFi area within the next 6-12 months (to be used, hopefully, as a very long-term residence), I hope you’re right. I could be wrong, but it seems like there’s been much less price movement at the highest-end units, and a lot of corresponding talk/spin from brokers that the highest-end units should be more immune to big price drops. I’ve wondered if I’ve been watching a big game of “chicken” playing out, as sales seem slow but prices haven’t been dropping like elsewhere in the Miami market (at least not as steeply or as obviously).
I’m not one of those people who believes the world is ending, but there’s just so much uncertainty in so many different areas of American life (and in so many sectors of the American economy), that it seems like the Miami r.e. market is still far from bottom. It seems clear the “bottom” for Miami will be a lot worse than the “bottom” for SoFi, but I have no clue what SoFi’s bottom might look like. (Another 5%? 15%? 25%?) I guess it’s anyone’s guess, although some of the people here seem well informed.
Yeah so the question is: are there enough lawyers in Miami to save the downtown and south beach condo market?
Note: Renter Tom posted a couple more times while I was typing my last comment. Just to clarify, I hope he’s right about price drops in the SoFi area, and not that the U.S. r.e. market will be an utter disaster into 2013 (although it’s hard to refute the info. presented).
Interesting points guys. For the most part I agree with you, especially after hearing your reasoning. I think maybe my opinion might be based more so on my immediate surroundings, ie myself and several co-workers who are in the market right now looking for a good deal. We’re all end users as well, who have been waiting on the side lines as prices have been falling. Also, my previous comments were directed more at the RE market in general, rather just Miami. Miami is a bad spot these days. I guess only time will tell.
What do you guys think about inflation? Part of the reason why I wanna buy a condo now, beyond having a place to live, is because I wanna buy it at todays dollars. You guys have an opinion on that?
Joe – I do think there is a game of “chicken” going, but the condo unit owners who want or need to sell will be the ones that blink…..like in Prisoner’s dilemma but with a lot more weak players, some desperate, there are bound to be owners that blink…..and chase the market down. One complicating factor is that they owe more on the condo then the mortgage and so even if they stop paying everything it delays the whole process…… I know of one owner that owns several SoBe units in a new construction building that wants out now now now……he can’t be alone. The US real estate market will be at least stagnant through 2012….
And when I say inflation, I’m not talking about standard inflation……I’m talking about the borderline hyper-inflation that a lot of people are predicting due to the actions the FED is currently taking to try and stave off this recession.
DJ,
I just tried to REFI my 6.125%. It is going to cost me about $10-14,000 to do that with 2 or 3 points at 4.85% and will take me 4.5 years to recoup my costs. But then again I thought about the coming 8,9 or 11% interest rates and decided 6.125% is not bad at all. I’ll stick with it. But as far as your Q goes, if you are buying it for yourself as an end user and holding for 5 or more years, buy now and lock in a good rate.
I’m petrified of hyperinflation and I hope it does not happen but as you said “borderline” or something similar to that kind of inflation will happen in the next few years unless the feds mop up the excess liquidity they pumped and pumping into the economy. But the big question is are they capable of doing that? One school of thought is they will let dollar slide to make their debts to China and others disappear. Lets see what happens.
Renter Tom — Thanks for the feedback. Please let me know if you hear anything specific to Continuum North. I was shocked to learn today that over 40 units there are still owned by the developer. That, in itself, seems to indicate prices will come down some, unless the developer can hold out a lot longer than a lot of other Miami developers have been able to do.
Speaking of Continuum North, does anyone know what the average or ballpark price per sq. foot was at that building during the pre-construction phase? I’m trying to figure out where prices stand today vs. the pre-construction phase.
DJ — The inflation angle is something I’ve thought about, too, but right now it seems like more of a distraction than a real factor in timing a Miami condo purchase. If the Miami market still is far from rock bottom, whatever one might gain by buying property right now, with today’s dollars, easily could be erased by falling prices. I don’t doubt inflation or even hyper-inflation will come to pass, but I don’t believe many people are forecasting it for the next 6 months, or even 12 months, especially with the economy still shedding a massive number of jobs each month, and I’m guessing the r.e. market will be one of the last sectors inflation will affect.
AJ – I know people getting under 5% with no points for refi’s….granted they have excellent credit. Moreover, you need to keep in mind that asset price comes first, THEN look at financing. If you consider financing first i.e. cheap money and “payments” and don’t keep your eye on the price you’re apt to get burned. First decide if the price is right, then figure out how to finance it…..
Remember people, this is a structural recession, not a cyclical one. The fed govt can’t reflate the credit bubble. It is simply too big…..what was it $8T in housing phantom equity is gone….then look at stocks etc. too….
DJ — Just to clarify, AJ just raised a good point. My comment above was posted from the standpoint of a cash, or mostly cash, purchase. But the more you’ll be dependent on a mortgage, the more the interest rate becomes a factor. I still wouldn’t be in the “buy today” camp unless you really fall in love with a place and like the price, but if rates start trending upward, it’s something to consider.
Joe – the asset price decline could eclipse any low interest rate advantage……price first, financing second.
– Keep in mind too that the current economic conditions were the result of a credit bubble…..way way way too much debt and the lending ratios were out of whack with businesses, households and banks…. The fed govt has done nothing to really address the debt problem…in fact they are doing the opposite, trying to keep the music going by taking on unreal fed debt levels….crazy really. The question is who will loan the US money and at what interest rate going forward. The fed govt borrowing will compete against the private sector resulting in less economic growth and less private investment. The govt is not a creator of wealth.
You know it is starting to get bad when state and local govt’s cut workers….Broward Sheriff’s office and now California is going to let go 5,000 (that’s just a start!)……
Joe and AJ, thanks for the responses.
Joe, I am buying with 100% cash, and plan on holding the unit for a period of probably 5+ years as it will be my primary residence. That, and the fact that I did find the place I really wanted at what seems like a great deal on a short sale, are my main motivators for buying now. I may not get the absolute bottom, but I’m not as worried about that considering these other factors.
I stopped in the 163rd St Mall for the first time…….empty empty empty. Half the stores fronts are boarded up and there is some sort of no name dollar store on the second floor and way too many shoe stores selling athletic shoes geared to the inner city fashion. Has it been that way for a while??? That mall looks to be a zombie mall.
RT, the 163st mall has always been super ghetto and shitty for as long as I’ve lived here. It sure as hell aint no Bal Harbor.
DJ — Okay, good luck. I didn’t realize you had found a place. I thought you were concerned with running out and finding one before inflation became a factor. But if you’re a cash buyer and buying long-term, you should be in good shape, assuming the HOA doesn’t become a nightmare. (I believe the HOA angle is being way under-reported/under-emphasized right now. There were HOAs on the brink of bankruptcy in Miami during the absolute boom times. I can only image what some of the balance sheets look like right now, or will look like a few years from now.)
Are you buying in Miami or Miami Beach? Again, good luck.
Joe – Don’t forget that real estate property taxes will have to go up. Moreover, just saw that it would appear that insurance costs will be going up significantly in FL….actually a lot of insurance will go up since investment returns by insurance companies help to keep premiums lower and as we all know investment returns aren’t positive here. Now is not the time to be house rich and cash poor.
About time
“Court ruling could help condo associations go after investor-owners who don’t pay fees”
– Condo buildings are under enough pressure without deadbeats collecting rent but not paying the HOA fees!
RT — I agree about the “cash poor” part. I definitely wouldn’t spend my last dollar to get into ownership of a Miami condo right now. But if I had the cash for the condo plus cash to spare, and I was very, very sure I liked the unit/building and was buying long-term, I could probably pull the trigger. I don’t doubt that renting might be more cost-effective for the foreseeable future, but there are also downsides, e.g., living on year-to-year leases.
As for property taxes, that’s going to be an interesting issue. There’s something drastically wrong when local governments, from coast to coast, that were raking in record property tax receipts 1-2 years ago suddenly are on the brink of bankruptcy a year into an economic downturn. In any event, I simply can’t see how Miami-Dade, of all places, could even consider raising property taxes over the next 2-3 years. As it is, a huge number of people are paying taxes on assessments that aren’t even remotely reflective of current market values. I’m surprised more people aren’t screaming already.
RT
What’s the latest on the Jade Condos in SIB?
I know Jade Beach had been doing wll, but not sure where they are now. Any idea?
Mall at 163 is definately NO Bal Harbor heck it aint no midtown either…What it should have is metal detectors at the front door as it has been an urban ghetto mall since the late 80’s ( I saw New Jack City There) and nothing anyone ever did would and will change that, and while its unfortunate it does have potential-heck I am calling Magic Johnson as I bet there his Movie/theme park concept would work-land is built and needless to say their is a demand…
so no matter the product there is always a buyer…
Joe (comment #79),
Your first paragraph pretty much sums me up to a T. BTW, the place I’m looking to buy is in N. Bay Village. I’m actually not sure if that is technicially considered Miami or Miami Beach, since smack in the middle of Biscayne Bay.
As for property taxes, that’s something I’m concerned about too. If I get this unit, it will be at a 40% discount over what the last buyer paid for it at the begining of 2008, so I would expect the assessed value to reflect that. From what I’ve heard though, the city doesn’t wanna fall off the gravy train, so they’re pretty resistant to granting a new assessment based on todays prices. I really don’t see how they actually get with this shit.
“In Miami-Dade about 32,291 property owners are delinquent on a total of $198,817,889.08 in property taxes. ”
“Every county finance official we talked to here in Florida told us that not paying your property taxes on time isn’t so bad. It’s an option that struggling property owners should consider as an economic option.”
http://cbs4.com/iteam/Florida.New.Law.2.1013725.html
“Only $200 mil in the red. That’s nothing!”
-Jorge Perez
DJ — The refusal to reduce assessments is total B.S., and I can’t believe people aren’t storming City Hall over it. Local governments haven’t been conservative about raising assessments when one or more comparable properties sold at a *higher* price than the assessment — even when mortgage fraud clearly was involved — so it should be a two-way street, without the need for a fight.
Obviously, property taxes are somewhat of a numbers game anyway — I’m not well-versed in Florida’s property tax laws or its statutory restraints on annual increases, but local governments are famous for lowering assessments while raising the tax *rate,* which is often a wash if not a hidden tax increase — but as far as Miami is concerned, right now, today, there likely are tens of thousands of condo units massively over-appraised, and it’s unjust.
Joe-
Correct on Continuum North. Developer has plenty of units left and many are not listed on the MLS. Many are also already rented, because they have been renting units for almost a year now.
The Continuum developer was Ian Bruce Eichner. Google his name and tract record. He’s run into BIG problems in Vegas recently (Cosmopolitan).
AJ
Have you ever visited the S & S Diner on NE Second Av about 17 Street in your neighborhood? Went by there the other day and surprised its still there. Its kind of a Old Miami institution thats been there since 1936 an old fashioned horseshoe shaped counter that seats maybe 12-15 diners with good home cooking like turkey dinners/meatloaf/spaghetti/salads and great full breakfasts starting at 6:00 a.m. Lots of cops/teachers/lawyers go there.
Hugo P – I don’t know about Jade Beach doing “well”……maybe five lights on at night…one night only one and it was a bare bulb. Jade Ocean…..well heard from a finance person that they barely got it under glass and are out of cash to finish and bank taking over. Is Fortune International going under??? I would love to see the closing numbers for Jade Beach and Jade Ocean.
– Property taxes have to go up, they will. The govt has no money. Sales tax might have to go up too.
Joe – I’m looking to buy but want the right price first. I just see prices coming down significantly on the ocean. There is no movement of units and it is crushing developers and sellers. Paramount property in SIB went into foreclosure from what I heard, just an empty piece of land. Solis in SIB is stalled for 10 months. Empty condos in Trump Towers, Sayan, the Jades, the other Trumps in SIB are hurting big time….. Prices have to fall, they have to. I am a cash buyer, I’d like to buy, but why way overpay. Besides, having fun renting and can move if I want to too…
S & S is an institution and have opened up a second location in South Miami/Gables in another old Miami Landmark location-Allens Drugs where there is still an old fashioned counter as well. owner is a genious in keeping old Miami alive-those were the dayss if only Archie Bunker and edith were alive to see it.
RT — Everything you said makes sense. I’m at the point where I’m tired of moving and living out of a suitcase, so I’m willing to buy before the rock bottom if I find a place I love, in a great building, with an HOA that doesn’t seem like it’s on the verge of collapse. (But obviously, it’s impossible to tell if we’re 5% or 25% or even more away from rock bottom.)
Believe me, I don’t have money to burn, and I’m definitely not looking to overpay, or to pay “x” for a unit that’s worth “x minus 20%” a few months later. But right at the moment, it’s tough to tell which is true: That SoFi prices are far from bottom, or the claims of a lot of r.e. agents and even some online pundits that SoFi will be largely immune to the massive price decline seen elsewhere in the Miami market.
With apologies to Lucas, who runs a great site, I haven’t believed anything any So. Fla. r.e. agent has said in many, many years, so I’ve been waiting to see hard proof of one theory or another being true. Right now, SoFi seems like a giant standstill, or, as mentioned earlier, a giant game of “chicken.”
Driving over the 163rd bridge toward the beach about 1/2 hour ago…..8 units had lights on in the Trump Towers in SIB…..that is less than 1% and it is getting close to Memorial Day weekend…..
DJ,
I believe what Joe says is most likely correct from various people I’ve talked to that were homeowners through boom/bust cycles in major cities.
You may eventually get you assessed value to a reasonable number, but then your millage ( tax rate) will just get jacked so your tax bill does not really decrease.
I’d be interested in hearing others experiences in this matter.
When you look at some of the current property taxes in “high-end” Miami, this isn’t a trivial issue. You might get into a situation of paying boomtime high HOA and high taxes on a condo who’s cash value got chopped nearly in half.
RT — Funny you mention the “lights on” example. That was my first clue that things were a little crazy in SoBe a few years ago. I recall taking a cab over to SoBe and seeing high-rises with no more than 5 or 10 lights on, at something like 9:00 p.m. on a Tuesday. I asked a couple r.e. agents why that was, and they said, “That’s because they’re all partying at the beach!”
Ha ha! Yeah, right!
JL — No question your last paragraph is a big concern for many. I believe there are relatively normal-sized 3-bedroom units at places like Continuum North that cost in excess of $50,000 per year just in HOA + property taxes. I don’t mind high HOA fees if the services are excellent and reserves are being set aside, but $25,000 or $30,000 in property taxes to live in the sky seems a bit excessive.
This one goes mostly to RT since he is an expert on SIB.
I was about ready to make a deal at LaPerla but I was warned by a RE pro that the association has serious financial problems.
Have you heard anything similar?
900 Biscayne has a new restaurant currently being built out called Botequim Carioca Brazilian Bar & Grill.
Publix Supermarkets has a June 4th target date to open a new grocery store in Mary Brickell village.
to #94. I have a unit in La Perla and never heard that there are problems. The building is run pretty effectively. I know the manager. She is a very professional woman and seem to know what she is doing In fact our HOA fees remained the same for the past 2 years and significantly lower than in all nearby buildings. I stayed in the building many times. Things have improved dramatically since Nov.2006 when we moved there. Nothing is ferfect in this world but I like the building very much.
George – Not sure about the “serious financial problems” in La Perla since I haven’t looked at the books….I would imagine basic info would be available for prospective buyers though. Take a look at things and post back what you find. I had heard that a special assessment of $2K-$8K per unit was coming down the pike there to redo the common area hallways since the developer went el cheapo on the common area finishes. Quite frankly, that special assessment probably is money well spent since the hallways look like a cheap hotel…too bad the developer didn’t do it right when it was built! Another comment is that there are a huge number of rentals in that building which means that eventually those will go for sale….no sure how many owners are end users there and the common areas are small given the number of units. It does appear that La Perla is having sub $300/s.f. sales. Also understand that parking is a bit problematic there too. Good luck! By the way, will be interesting to see how the St. Tropez does w.r.t. closings….and retail too.
My dad considered purchasing a unit in La Perla, but it wasn’t finely appointed enough. My pops is the king of cool. Those of you not willing to buy now have got no style. Renter tom is the most uncool of them all. Why no Bentley RT? Why no extravagant shows of wealth? I mean MC Hammer lived it up and he’s still doing great. 1800 Club 4-eva. Pace park out!
S0n of AJ – Don’t make fun of MC Hammer, he cleans my condo very well albeit I am a tad embarrassed since he insists on wearing those parachute pants. Meanwhile Gary Coleman has kept guard quite well too, no break in’s to date, knock on wood.
Ha ha ha, that’s funny son of AJ. I dont think AJ has any legit children. Are you his bastard child? Who’s your mom BTW?
I am not a bastard. My pops was briefly wed to Gloria Laura Morgan Vanderbilt, she’s a prominent NY socialite and member of the Vanderbilt dynasty. My half brother is CNN’s anderson copper. Pops is DJng for young jeezy at mansion this weekend. I already know Lucas and jamie fox will be there. Anyone else?
Anyone have any info and Harbour House in Bal Harbour? Prices seem to be dropping and the area and building look great.
BankUnited just got taken over by the feds…..guess no one wanted to buy it, eh? Hmmmmm, that bad.
…and it’s not even a Friday! Booooya!
Bank United should have a lot of juicy foreclosures with their indiscriminate lending. So whats the process now. FDIC and will they hold auctions??? I think i smell a tipping point here.
BankUnited update…..looks like someone did buy it. Initial news report said FDIC take over without anything else. All deposits safe, stockholders ZEROED out, FDIC hit of $4.9 billion….. Someone must have had plans for the long weekend.
“On Thursday, May 21, 2009, BankUnited, FSB, Coral Gables, FL was closed by the Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS) and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) was named Receiver. Subsequent to the closure, BankUnited, a newly chartered federal savings bank, acquired the assets and most of the liabilities of BankUnited, FSB from the FDIC as Receiver for BankUnited, FSB. No advance notice is given to the public when a financial institution is closed.”
Looks like the new bank didn’t want to have to change the signs so they kept the BankUnited name and simply dropped off the “, FSB” part…..apparently no money left for new signage! LOL
Renter Tom,
A consortium including WL Ross, Blackstone, Centerline, and other financial insiders bought BankUnited. Another case of backroom dealing benefiting the elite.
Just curious, but do you have a target of where you see Miami condo prices bottoming out? My rough guesses are ~$300/sf for new SoBe oceanfront (e.g. continuum), ~$150/sf for new high end downtown (e.g. 10 museum park).
Anyone notice that the dollar is sinking again against the euro. Bad for foreign investors…
joebob — You’re projecting around a $300/s.f. bottom for Continuum North? There haven’t been many sales in that building this year, but the ones that have closed have averaged around $1,100/s.f. based on the data I’ve seen. As over-saturated as the Miami condo market is, a further 75% decline in SoBe prices seems extremely pessimistic. (I am, however, curious what others here say about it.)
joebob – Those prices are within the realm of reasonableness albeit prime locations with views probably won’t be there….but average, hmmm, possibly. In the heart of SoBe….higher than in SIB where you can get direct ocean front for $300/s.f. already.
Joebob, I think your prediction is a bit on the low side. $150/$300 sounds pretty reasonable for average places in downtown/sobe, but for prime units with ocean front/water views, I can’t see prices falling that far.
Saw this last night.
Its quite an indictment on the state of business journalism. So many people reporting numbers, rumor and innuendo that they simply don’t understand. They don’t understand the fundamentals of smart finance yet propose to tell others what to do with their money.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/jan-june09/andrews_05-21.html
Interesting article. Journalists are clueless and mortgage brokers are scum. What else is new?
Did anyone see Infinity got Fannie Mae approval? I wonder what their rational was? Then again Icon Brickell with its double digit closings (out of 1800) was approved as well…
By the way…..coming across the 163rd bridge around 11 pm last night…..only counted 3 lights on at the Trump Towers in SIB……didn’t bother to count the lights on in the other Trumps up north in SIB….but not many…..
Joe
Continuum North first qtr 09 sales were – five units sold for average of $875. per sq foot. Continuum South had one sale at $856. per sq foot. The numbers are on here on my post #35. Check it out.
Kramer — Thanks for the feedback. Very interesting. I had been using this site:
http://idx.kevintomlinson.com/kt/listing/sold_units/62
… for my sales info., but either this guy is math-challenged or he’s cooking the numbers. I had taken his numbers at face value, but if you crunch the 2009 sales, the numbers they have listed for SP/s.f. are inflated by about $200 per sale. That’s why I had mentioned, above, that Cont. North was selling for $1,100/s.f. when, in fact, it’s actually selling a little under $900/s.f. as you mentioned.
I still have a hard time seeing Cont. North, or similar SoBe/SoFi buildings, getting down to $300/s.f., but it looks like the prices already are 25% softer than I had thought they were just 24 hours ago. There’s a big difference between $1,100/s.f. and $850/s.f., and it seems like that magical $1,000-per-s.f. price point was broken a while back now. With up to 50% of Cont. North available for sale or rent, maybe that $300/s.f. isn’t as outlandish as it first appeared. I guess it all depends on a few people at Cont. North blinking and re-setting the market there.
Does anyone know what Cont. North was selling for in pre-construction? It’s hard to tell what kind of situation those owner-investors are in without knowing what they paid for the units in the first place. Thanks.
Wow… Pops just performed with young jeezy last night. My pops is my hero. Some day I hope to grow up like him.
Very informative piece on property taxes as quoted by Rich Strell of the OMNI/design district:
“If you think your property taxes are too high, you should find this email to
be good news.
This past Tuesdayąs Miami Neighborhoods United meeting at Simpson Park was
an open meeting with Pedro Garcia, the first elected property appraiser for
Miami Dade County.
Mr. Garcia was engaging and forthcoming with interesting information.
Hereąs some key highlights:
A discussion took place regarding duplex condos. According to Ms. Beba Mann
(who is a candidate for the Miami City Commission in District 3), the city
attorney confirmed her suspicion that the city had been illegally allowing
łMcMansion˛ duplexes in the Grove and other areas of the city to be turned
into 2-unit condos. Mr. Garcia said it is up to the city to enforce its own
zoning. Once the duplex has been registered as a condo he has no choice
but to do the assessment.
Overall, we can expect property assessments to be significantly lower this
year. Preliminary assessments are supposed to be sent out around June 1.
The property appraiser does NOT use foreclosures as comparables for
appraisals. The state department of revenue does not allow it. However, he
DOES use short sales as comparables.
Important note: The property appraiser does NOT set taxes, only the assessed
value. It is then up to the governing body (the city, county, school board,
etc.) to set the millage rate, which then determines your taxes.
( A quick side lesson on the millage rate: By state law, the maximum
millage rate is 10. (This is the same as 1%. Millage means Śper thousandą,
as opposed to percentage, which means Śper hundredą). So, if your property
is assessed at $500,000 the maximum property tax that the city, county and
school board could charge would be 10/1000, or (1/100), which comes out to
$5,000 each. However, it is very important to know that the maximum millage
rate of 10 only applies to property assessments, and that cities and
counties have been using a trick for a number of years to circumvent the
millage cap; they charge łfees˛. Examples include a solid waste fee and the
infamous fire fee. Also, if you live in a special taxing district, perhaps
to pay a security guard, that would be a separate fee. )
There is a controversy regarding whether a homeowner of a residential-zoned
duplex, triplex or quad, who lives in the building, is allowed to have
homestead exemption on the entire building and not only his/her half, third
or fourth. This issue is currently being litigated.
In the past, if a homeowner had a disagreement with his/her property
assessment, it was up to the homeowner to prove the county was wrong.
Beginning in 2010, the county must prove their assessment is correct. (The
burden of proof is shifted to the county.)
Once you receive your property tax assessment, you have 25 days to file any
disagreement with the Value Adjustment Board. 55% of the people who go
before the Value Adjustment Board win.
In 2010 there will also begin a 5% cap on assessment increases on
non-homestead property.
Income property will be assessed using the income approach.
The 3% cap on increases for homesteaded property has another limitation that
many people are not aware of: Your property assessment can only go up 3% OR
whatever the increase was in the consumer price index, whichever is lower.
This past year the CPI was 0.1%.
Mr. Garcia thinks many people will be quite pleased with their property
assessments when they come out this year.
On the other hand, you can expect the city, county and school board to
either raise the millage rate closer to the cap of 10, raise Śfeesą, cut
their budgets, or any combination of the three.
For more information, please see the Property Appraiserąs website:
http://www.miamidade.gov/PA/
—
Elvis Cruz
Secretary, Miami Neighborhoods United
631 NE 57 Street
Miami, Florida 33137
(305) 754-1420 [email protected]“
Looks like the shadow inventory of homes will start coming to light later 2009 and through 2010 onward. Things are changing…the hanger on’ers are sobered up. No more foreclosure moratoriums, banks have to get these things off their books at a time when foreclosure costs are rising (new legislation prevents renters from being immediately evicted if landlord gets foreclosed upon). And the list goes on.
Just got done looking at some Las Vegas issues….seems more intense of a downturn than Miami but same issues. When you have a drop of 15%-30% in all categories of business, that can’t be good for Las Vegas both now and in the next few years. At least homes don’t get moldy there when the electricity is turned off…..
In an environment of higher and higher taxes, how will people be able to afford such expensive homes? I am convinced that taxes will be going up significantly going forward…the age of low taxes is ending for a least a decade, maybe two. The tax burdens on the productive members of society are growing at time of distress…….
As some of the others know, I have been looking to buy a condo. Am starting to think maybe a single family home without the condo issues is the way to go. Dunno. I prefer a condo but so much uncertainty and things out of owes control are issues. Been following condo buildings and I just see stagnation/no real activity and potential land mines as the uncertainty of the other owners who are trying to get out by selling might walk away instead….. Even supposedly “stable” condo buildings could change…
Just a few ramblings as I peruse the real estate landscape and wait for the sun to peak through to hit the beach….
AJ – There is no hope on taxes, none whatsoever. Taxes are going up across the board, period. There is no hope. The millage rate will go up and capping “assessed values” at 5% increase or whatever in a declining asset category is meaningless. Again, there is no HOPE, the only CHANGE is higher taxes!
Something’s gotta give. Let us see what California does. FL is not in as bad a situation as Cali but what Cali does to save itself will probably be a fore bearer to things to come in other cities and states. The other day I was reading in Biscayne Times about $200,000 to $300,000 salaries to cops and firefighters in Miami. Such obscene excesses will go. Whether you like it or not, Unions or not, when there are no cookies in the cookie jar, there will be nothing to steal. In the good old times, pols were shitting in there pants to touch such holy cows such as cops and fire men. Now they are at least talking about it (at least one of them). The gravy train will not last long.
The other day someone was questioning why the people are not storming the city halls yet. I say just wait. There will be janes and jones with pitch forks in their hands storming the city halls if things don’t change. I think Americans have had enough. Their carefree attitudes of yesteryears are just that, things of the past.
The problem is when 50% of the population takes more from the govt then what they give it, they not only are dependent on the public trough, they vote it in! Basically, it has undermined private property and public property that is “free” is over consumed to the point of ruin.
So I read in the paper yesterday that they are cutting back on Tri Rail service almost in half and then plan to shut it down in 2 or 3 years completely because of lack of funds.
And then a few months ago Miami Dade decided it is a good idea to pay ~$500 million for a new baseball stadium by issuing bonds. All I can say is WOW. These people are drunk on power.
I’ll also be watching California to see what it does. I suppose cities could declare bankruptcy and perhaps get out of the union contracts. I suspect the next round of first time buyers and flippers are going to get taxed into delinquency in a few years. Uninsured municipal bond holders will also get killed. Miami Beach will have to sell South Pointe Park to a casino operator.
No joke…read this:
“Realtors see ballooning Calif. house-price drops
May 8th, 2009
The California Association of Realtors’ housing forecast now calls for a 28.4% drop in the median price of a California house.
That compares to a projected drop of just 6% originally expected when the association first unveiled its 2009 forecast in October.
In its revised forecast, the association predicts that:
The median house price will fall to $248,000 in 2009. In October, CAR expected the price to fall only to $358,000.
The projected drop comes on top of a 38% price decline in 2008, when the median fell to $346,400, down from $560,300 the year before.
House sales, however, are projected to be much better than expected back in October, with 550,000 houses sold statewide this year.
That would be a 25% increase from 2008, when 439,800 houses sold.
The revised sales outlook is pretty good considering that the state was down to 347,000 sales a year in 2007.
The 550,000 sales is revised from an earlier projection of 445,000 houses sold.”
– What???????? Realtors® actually telling the truth or are they still under estimating the price drops?
Oh, and you just gotta read this! ONE, yes one, homeowner benefitted. From Jim the Realtor’s website:
FRIDAY, MAY 22ND, 2009 AT 9:23 AM
HoHoHo 2.0
Hat tip to Stephen for passing this along, from propublica:
The Hope for Homeowners program was created by Congress last summer to help an estimated 400,000 homeowners avoid foreclosure. But it could more aptly be called the Hope for A Homeowner program, given that just ONE has used it successfully since its October launch.
But silver linings are hard to come by these days, so we might as well point out that she is one satisfied customer.
“What a relief!” the lucky homeowner from Litchfield Park, Ariz., wrote to her mortgage bank, NationsChoice, in February. “An extra $542 in monthly savings and a $100,000+ principal reduction sure is a relief. Thank you!”
Hope for Homeowners was designed to give people who couldn’t afford their mortgage payments a chance to refinance into a 30-year, fixed-rate loan insured by the Federal Housing Administration, even if they owed more than their home was worth. But the lender would need to reduce the amount the borrower owed before the FHA, a division of the Department of Housing and Urban Development, would insure the loan.
The program has been a flop. But Congress and the administration are trying to rescue it, envisioning it as a key component of the government’s campaign to curb foreclosures. On Wednesday, President Obama signed a bill that includes improvements to the program.
Some think this is a mistake.
see the rest of the article here:
http://www.propublica.org/ion/bailout/item/analysts-tweaks-may-not-save-congress-failed-foreclosure-fix-522/#10778
Renter Tom — I hate HOAs with a passion, but I don’t see an escape from them in Miami Beach (or So. Fla. in general) if I want to live on the beach. I believe (?) you said you’re also enjoying a condo on the beach right now, and buying a single-family somewhere inland seems like a big tradeoff just to escape the HOAs (I assume single-family on the beach is out of the question for you, as it is for 99.9% of us. Hell, I can’t even think of the closest single-family on the beach from SoBe — anyone?)
woopie — The Tri-Rail news is sad, but typical of So. Fla. Looking at the rail services as a whole, the pols built a great *start* to a mass-transit system, but then let it exist without a connector to MIA airport for decades, which left the system basically north/south. Building a mass-transit rail system that didn’t serve the #1 route was the height of stupidity. It’s no wonder the system is an afterthought for so many Miami residents, which means fewer use it, which leads to the current funding problems.
But I still wouldn’t bet on Tri-Rail closing. I bet the threats are mostly a ploy by the local pols to get Uncle Barack to TARP them a check to keep it running.
Joe – I don’t hate HOA’s….the concern is that other owners won’t pay the assessments causing a condo death spiral. Mismanagement, lavish spending….heck even HOA corruption I can deal with….but owners not paying their fees resulting in a collapse – I can’t handle that!
RT — Well, all of the problems you mentioned are good reasons to hate HOAs. Just as it’s inexcusable for governments to be going belly-up less than 2 years into an economic downturn that followed a historic boom, a lot of these HOAs shouldn’t be in such dire straits so quickly, either. (Of course, most HOAs probably are massively underfunded by the developers to begin with, both in terms of reserves and the monthly fees that are kept artificially low in order to spur sales.)
AJ,
I think florida will be in worse condition than california when all is said and done. the state of california is a very diverse and large economy (7th largest in the world?). Florida does not have such luxury. we have no diversity of economy, and we have no political and economical leadership to lead us over the next decade. too little focus on education and achievement, and too much focus on rewards for jobs poorly done. we focus on financial, real estate and law to drive our higher end economy-these are all services and not producer businesses-they do not thrive in a down economy. just ask new york city right now.
energy and conservation are good new industries, and miami is trying to embark in this arena, but sorry to say our local leadership is not smart enough to capitalize on this long term-just as a fad. as for real estate, to get a feel for where we are headed, look at the condos lucas has listed in brickell. enormous numbers of short sales are listed. the properties are not moving, and the numbers indicate people want out and now. not good for the future of these buildings. which is a bummer because i want to buy into a stable building.
People should think of HOA’s like a business. When you buy a condo, you are buying into a business with X number of strangers. Some you will never meet and you really won’t find out everything about that business until you have purchased.
There is only so much info they will give you before you buy, and its very limited and generic. Its blind faith when you buy unfortunately.
Like Joe said, many of these buildings are in financial trouble because HOA dues were set artificially low by the developer to spur sales. Then people want to blame the HOA board because they are forced to raise dues 30% in a year.
“Home insurance prices likely to rise by 10 percent”
– Oh and w.r.t. the HOA fees, no problem realizing that once the HOA is turned over form the developer fees will rise since they were artificially low…..the real problem is the condo death spiral which one owner (even the developer) can’t control. Normally that risk is low, but in this environment it is not.
There is no way to “manage” the condo death spiral risk other than to simply choose to not participate/buy a condo. But if you have already bought, you are powerless.
Gables (and also Joe),
Gables said “which is a bummer because i want to buy into a stable building.” and Joe hates HOA mis management, abusive spending and delinquencies.
Are we seeing a trend?
I have been saying this all along, forget about atrium style lobbies, forget about movie theaters in the buildings and other mindless trappings, just focus on one thing, is the building run efficiently and cost effectively? And then jump on it. Unfortunately people are not focusing on the most important aspect of a flat buying which is to see how the buildings financials are and most important how they are going to be in the near future.
I know about what goes on in my building and laid it bare here for everyone to see. But unfortunately a lot of owners are not contributing to this blog as they have been driven away by more and more silly talk (such as $300/sf in SOFI and other such Idiocity). There are some buildings like mine out there which are a bang for the HOA buck. But no one seems to know where they are or who they are.
May I suggest to Lucas to include a chart with all 50 downtown buildings and some important SOBE buildings and mention the HOA/sf/month so that we can all benefit from that info? It will also kick start a lively discussion as to why such and such building has a low HOA and why the others are astronomical. Is it because of the excess and unnecessary amenities or mismanagement or some other reason.
SBS and RT are both sceptical of initial low HOA and rightly so. ICON told us that HOA would be like 45 cents/ sf/ month. That is definite BS and will be more like 65 to 75 cents when all said and done (unless the Viceroy picks up the entire tab to run the 15th floor common area amenities). But do the due diligence and then you will be fine. Last month some of my friends from my neighborhood building were cursing the day they bought their flat. Their HOA jumped unbearably and the developer is still holding the strings.
In the past (like 6 months ago) Wild Bill came up with conspiracy theories and other similar ideas as to why my buildings HOA is low and guaranteed me that it will go up. He is right! they went up by $20 a month and still are the lowest HOA in all of Miami new buildings! Fraud? Cooking up books? It has been almost 2 years and no sane developer who is a good businessman will dip into his pockets to subsidize HOA for that long. Any way just to silence the critics, the Home Owners got the budget audited by an independent auditor and it passed with flying colors and absolutely no hanky panky discovered. Just good and efficient management and tightly controlled staff and expenses do the trick to keep the HOA at 43 cents/sf/mo.
If there are other well managed buildings I would like to know and so do others.
In Lucas’s condo ranking page, all other parameters to rank a building pale in comparison to the single most important subject (ironically not included in the ranking criteria) which is the HOA and how the building is managed.
AJ,
does that43c include reserves? and does the builder still controll the HOA?
If the builder is still in controll then don’t count on that number staying that low for long.
Considering today is the unofficial start of the summer grilling season I was just wondering if anyone on this blog knows if those High Rise Condos in Miami allow grilling on the balconies? It would be such a shame if they were prohibited and it would be another reason to go with the SFH instead.
MMT,
Developers has 2 votes and the owners have 1 vote on the board. But he has never (I stress NEVER) vetoed even one time any proposal put forward by the owners committee, who are represented by the one board of director with one vote. He always acted in consensus and in fact the owners over rode him on many occations and he did not resort to the veto power he has by means of the one extra vote on his side.
Having said that, why is it that you guys keep saying again and again that HOA will go up once developer relinquishes control. It may be true for some buildings. Especially for buildings with low closing rates. For buildings that are closed 70% and over, it is almost set. In any case, the developers do not have any money in their kitty to subsidize the HOA anymore. It is a major fallacy that you guys are having.
Grilling. My building does not allow it. Some people have inconspicuous small electric grills to circumvent the rule and are not being cited as long as it is not a major nuisance to anyone. But a big charcoal grill is a no no.
No need t predict what the price will be. Use a rent vs buy calculator. Adjust the price vs the prevailing rate for RENTED units. Make sure to input taxes and HOA. Once it is cheaper to buy after 5 to 10 years or sooner then prices have bottomed. No magic here.
1800 club has no reserves. Once the roof goes and AJ gets his ass special assessed into bankruptcy he’ll sing a different tune.
using my method the unit 1807 in 1800 Murder Club should go for 200K if sold today. If the HOA goes up, even less.
Peace out
Fire code doesn’t allow gas or charcoal grills on balconies. If you see people grilling on the balcony it’s because the previous tenant stole the appliances. Apogee has gas grills and vents on the balconies. This is the exception as they are vented and approved by fire and building codes.
If you see someone grilling on their balcony call the fire department. Their neighbors are probably passed out and cannot get to the phone.
BMW,
Same argument as in your other site (Mo’s site). No surprise here. Hate 1800 all you want. The fact is that not just anyone even the Realtors love this building and tout it as one of the best in terms of location, views, price, HOA and amenities. They have no reason to uplift one building over another as they sell everywhere and in all buildings. Just to name a few who think 1800 is one of the best in terms of above criteria that downtown has to offer ask Samir Patel (maimi condo realty), Brian Sereny, Bill Hernandez (zilbert), Ivan Chorney (majestic) and many many other realtors (I will not put Lucas in an awkward position by asking him to take a stand on this but I am sure he too loves this building). Of course, if you are their client trying to buy in Marina Blue, they might not sing the praise of 1800 but ask them privately what in their opinion 1800 would be and I am 100% sure it would figure in their top 10 buildings.
I saw all the charts and pictorials on your website and the venom you spew on 1800. Actually I am coming to believe that it all comes more out of jealousy than anything else. Snap out of it my friend. Hate is bad for your health. If you really want a flat in 1800 that bad, we can find you a lot of good deals there. If you want to buy 1807 for $200,000, sorry can’t help you there. But you don’t have to run a building to ground so that you can buy a flat in it for cheap. That approach has totally failed you. Could you employ a more reasonable and effective strategy that does not turn you into Mr Hyde.
Wild Bill,
You said gas and charcoal grills are fire code violations. Does that mean electric grills are OK? Any one else has an idea on this?
Aj, you clearly have two problems: 1. Unable to do math. It’s cheaper to rent at 1800 club for 30 years than to buy. Why would I ever buy this unit? 2. You’re delusional check out miamicondorealty.com samir patels site paramount bay is “our pick” 900 biscayne our pick 500 brickell our pick. 1800 club nothing
Some great news I have been waiting for has finally arrived. I have been lamenting the lack of a true nightlife anchor in the Pace-Omni area around which everything else would coalesce. The impending arrival of St.Marks Place at 19th st on Biscayne Blvd is just the catalyst needed to jump start this area. This multi Million Dollar Lounge/restaurant will do to Pace-Omni what Mary Brickell Village did to West Brickell. This area is just waiting to happen. I strongly believe that the center of gravity will shift from else where to the corridor between Adrienne Arsht center (15th st/Biscayne) to Midtown (36th st/Biscayne or NE 2nd ave).
The best part is that this corridor will become unrecognizable in 2 to 3 years time. That is because I believe the entire area East of North Miami Avenue between 15th and 36th st is a blank canvas that can be transformed into anything with very little investment and we are seeing it happening in front of our own eyes even during this economic downturn. Have you seen Biscayne Blvd between 19th and 25th street? It is already looking super and one day not too far, the entire blvd in this corridor will be transformed into a mini version of Paseo de la Reforma or Avenida 9 de Julio.
Brickell is already what it is. What you see now is what you are going to see 2 or 5 or even 10 years from now. Ditto Downtown/CBD. There is nothing left to develop or transform.
Regarding Park West, the area East of NW 1st Ave shows immense promise but it requires millions if not billions in investment to make some changes. The rough neighborhood nearby will not help either to make a quick transition. The planned Miami World Center will be life altering for Park West but who knows when that is going to happen. 2020 maybe?
I still implore anyone still looking to seriously consider this corridor to park yourself. There are many buildings here like Biscayne Plaza, Gallery Art, Midtown etc that you can consider which are offering excellent deals. You will not recognize the transformation this area will go through in the very short near term future.
Test … test … test
AJ — The developer might not have to “subsidize” low HOA fees out of his pocket right now, because the current fees might be sufficient to cover month-to-month operating expenses. However, your HOA fees still could be artificially low, if no reserves are being set aside. How old is your building and what’s the reserve balance? Until you know the answer to that, this remains an open question.
I guess I can’t post links here, but is this guy serious?
Written by Miami Beach Real Est…, Agent in Sunny Isles Beach
May 25, 2009 9:38 PM Market Conditions
According to the news nation wide about luxury real estate, you may be thinking that the real estate value of such relaxing, amenity-filled condos has dramatically dropped; however, you will see that the numbers speak very differently of South Beach Miami! South Beach Condos have climbed the wave of the US housing slump and have come out on top, retaining their values and even increasing their property values, making waterfront luxury South Beach Real Estate one of the best investments you can make right now.
Perhaps it is the amazing Miami Real Estate locationand convenience of South Beach, Miami area livingthat continues to bring people to the area, or it could be the awe inspiring views and amenities from the South Beach Area Condos. In terms of beauty and refinement, South Beach waterfront luxury condos have always been a “hot” commodity, a title they have kept in one of the worst economic climates of our lifetime.
The Miami Beach real estate area has long been a dynamic and impressive real estate market and judging by the current demand for homes in the Miami South Beach luxury area, it is easy to see why the home values continue to climb and provide investment equity for home owners.
Learn more about how you can protect your market investments with a luxury living South Beach Condo by contacting me, Leon Belenky, your Sunny Isles Miami Condo Expert.
==========
I’m not as bearish on oceanfront prices as some people here, but the above seems like pure fiction right now.
^^^
Haha. Which broker wrote that fluff piece? They didn’t offer one bit of data to support their false claim.
Last line of “article” — “… Leon Belenky, your Sunny Isles Miami Condo Expert.”
Salesmanship is one thing but that article borders on fraud — “current demand for homes” and “values continue to climb and provide investment equity”? Really???
Oh Case-Shiller…..why are you such a tough mistress! When will Miami hit the magic 50% off like Las Vegas and Phoenix?
Joe,
We do not have reserves. But in the first 3 months of the year, we collected $60,000 more than we could spend. That is set aside for emergencies.
I am not very comfortable with large amount of reserves lying around which will raise all kinds of ugly temptations among unscrupulous people to spend them on non emergencies and day to day operating expenses. When money is tight, people behave. And if an emergency does hit, I am totally on the side of imposing a special assessment to cover the damage that is outside the scope of insurance. What is the difference if the money is collected in advance, anticipating a catastrophe or after? You are paying the same amount either way. At least when it is not lying around, there is less chance to play mischief with that money. I am sorry, I just do not trust most boards to take care of my money wisely.
As to your next Q, 18’s average 2br HOA is $520/mo. Now let us compare that to a 2br maintenance in 50 Biscayne, MB, Quantum or Midtown 4 etc. which averages between $750-$850 or more. Now I would like to know which one of these buildings that are charging $200 more than 1800 for a 2/2 are setting aside money in a reserve fund. My guess is “0”. Please educate me.
“why is it that you guys keep saying again and again that HOA will go up once developer relinquishes control”
AJ, you are dulusional dude. You didn’t answer my guestion about the reserves so I am assuming that there are no reserves set aside. The reason why we say prices will go up when the developer leaves is because it always goes up. 1 reason is because the developer always pays his HOA fees on his units, when those units are in private hands you can’t always count on those HOA’s being paid on time. Another reason why is because the fees are always lower while the developer has control because they subsidize the HOA and they negotiate better deals on their contracts for services. I know you believe that is not the case in your building but just wait until the owners have control and are responsible for going out to find bids for your services, then you will find out the true cost. When I first bought my home in 2003 HOA dues were $300/yr but when the we took over the HOA we found there were significant shortages from the start. 2 years after taking over the HOA are $550/yr with the developer still owning about 15% of the lots and a relatively low 8% deliquency rate. Another reason why your HOA will go up is maint. Having to spend almost $15K to fix a water fountain the stupid beavers went to town on can really hurt HOA fees when y0u no longer have the builder to pay for it. We have no elevators or expensive commercial building systems in a corrosive bayside environment to maintain. What exactly do you think is going to happen to your HOA fees when the builder leaves? AJ you need to relax and not be so damn sensitive about 1800 club. Not eveyone is putting down the building, some people are speaking from experience of what they saw happen in other buildings. You would be a fool to completely dismiss every criticism of 1800 posted.
AJ – Having adequate reserves that can only be spent on the items that are being reserved for is appropriate. What can happen say when a new roof is needed in 15 years without collecting reserves for it over 15 years? Good luck collecting from everyone in a timely manner so you will get delayed maintenance and some you intend on selling in the next year or two will balk at having any special assessment until after they sell their units. Better to have a good 80% of the cost in reserves so any special assessment is modest. Hope you don’t take this the wrong way (as if I really care I suppose) you don’t seem to understand insurance or reserves.
RT, then you and BMW have to first agree on one thing. Are the reserves for an emergency or a planned future major works project? According to you it is the later and your friend BMW thinks it is for an emergency.
MMT,
1. developer always pays his HOA fees on his units, when those units are in private hands you can’t always count on those HOA’s being paid on time
Not always true. As I said before, it might make sense if the building has a low closing rate like less than 50%. For a building closed 70% or over, makes no diff. In our building we have 1 delinquency over 90 days. The rest (about 15-20 units) are usually 60 days or less in HOA delinquency and they always pay up after recieving a not so cordial letter. It has never been a problem in our building either due to some devine intervention or sheer luck. I wil not over analyze this issue. If you have info re. other buildings, let us know.
2. fees are always lower while the developer has control because they subsidize the HOA and they negotiate better deals on their contracts for services
what baloney! The home owners in 1800 actually negotiated with the management company, threatened to fire them and got their fee reduced by about $200,000. If not the developer was non confrontational and would have gone ahead with the management company demands.
The home owners fired 4 unnecessary employees, hired one additional security gaurd, got rid of a landscaper, rental plants(!!), devised a lot of energy saving methods and saved a lot of money. Of course all this happened with the developers go ahead (remember he ahs 2 votes and the home owners have 1 vote), but the fact is that most money saving decisions came from us and not him. So much for you theory. May apply to the other buildings. Not us. Maybe Pedro Martin does not give a shit about what happens in his 900 Biscayne or Quantum (incidentally the HOA in the north tower jumped to $850 on a 2/2, need confirmation on this) but 1800 is a differnt ball game.
3. I know you believe that is not the case in your building but just wait until the owners have control and are responsible for going out to find bids for your services, then you will find out the true cost.
I say bring it on. In fact we are raring to go. The home owners wanted to fire the mangement company and self mange for half the cost. The devloper vetoed the proposal. When the full control transfers to home owners, we will kick the management company middle man out of the door and directly hire our own manager and staff for half the cost.
4. Having to spend almost $15K to fix a water fountain the stupid beavers went to town on can really hurt HOA fees when y0u no longer have the builder to pay for it
Who says the developer is paying for any repairs or such? The Association is paying for all repairs and sundry. The developer just pays his share on the 28% units he owns. Just because he has majority control until 90% sold or 3 years (which ever comes first) does not mean he is responsible for all repairs. Someone is feeding you too much bull. Don’t believe it.
5. What exactly do you think is going to happen to your HOA fees when the builder leaves?
Nothing. Or even better! Any rise in HOA will be justified by the hawks and watchful homeowners we have right now. In fact in cases like Quantum, it is better that the developer leaves as he is not doing a good job in controlling costs. One of my quantum friend said this very seriously “I wish you bought in our buildin”, for which I said “you shut up and you pay. if you don’t care about your own building, no one else is going to rescue you”. But it all went over his head. He is the non involving type. I guess majority of the people are like that. But by sheer coincidence or good luck, we have very informed and involved home owners in my building. Thank God!
6. AJ you need to relax and not be so damn sensitive about 1800 club. Not eveyone is putting down the building, some people are speaking from experience of what they saw happen in other buildings. You would be a fool to completely dismiss every criticism of 1800 posted.
I am not being sensitive to critisism. People called worse things and I did not react. I take objection to misinformation. Why is it so tough for you guys to swallow that we do things differently and I wish everyone everywhere followed our penny pinching model? Instead of criticizing, find out what we are doing right and do the same in your buildings. $200/month extra HOA that many of you are paying is not chump change and it is time some one from Quantum has the balls to go to Pedro Martin, bang on his table and ask him why their neighbor is paying $250 less than him/her for almost similar services. That would do some good than ridiculing either me or the 1800.
AJ — Didn’t you say above that the developer had never vetoed anything the owners wanted to do? Now you’re saying the developer vetoed a change in management. I’m not trying to be a wise guy, but that’s not a minor detail.
AJ,
Scan 1800 Clubs budget and post it on a free site. I doubt your building is much different than all the other buildings in Miami. Miami owners are dumb and don’t know much about condo law. No way in hell the owners of 1800 Club are any less ignorant.
Electric grills are probably not covered under code, but most building docs will ban grilling on balconies altogether. Vegetarian lesbians don’t like to smell grilled sausage on the balcony below.
You cannot get an equity loan on these piece of junk condos in Miami. That’s why reserves are important. Owners don’t have a hundred grand to make emergency repairs. Buildings will get red flagged and people have to move out. Forget about insurance. It won’t help.
I want to elaborate on this point a bit more
MMT said “Having to spend almost $15K to fix a water fountain the stupid beavers went to town on can really hurt HOA fees when y0u no longer have the builder to pay for it”
If a fountain or jacuzzi or elevator breaks due to material defects, then the developer is responsible to fix it. He then might go after the warranty (if it is still under warranty) or the vendor or the contractor who installed, get the problem corrected or sue them or pay from his own pocket. If he does not do that, the home owners can sue the developer. Even after the developer relinquishes control, he can still be held responsible. So the developer leaving is not a major cause of concern unless his whole company has declared bk.
But if these things break in the course of usage (normal wear and tear) and out of warranty period, then the association has to bear the cost of repair even though the developer has managing control over the building. Either it will be paid out of association money or a special assessment will be made and everyone pays their share including the developer in proportion to the number of units he owns.
MMT, I hope this explains How and when who pays for what.
Joe,
You are trying to be a wise guy.
If you want to get technical, the home owners had a talk with the developer and he said he is against the idea of firing the management company.
Usually the home owners committee has meetings and officially make resolutions which then go to the board for voting. That is when the developer can put his stamp of approval or veto the resolution. He has s far always sided with the decisions made by the home owners committee. Case in point: He was totally against banning pets for the renters but he said he wanted to respect the home owners decision and went along with it and did not veto the resolution. As the subject of self managing has not been formally resolved upon, it never went to the board for a vote and hence no veto.
“We do not have reserves.”
!!! Yikes!!!
Thats incredibly bad management. You’re basically living week to week.
In a few years, your building will have to replace the roof, or repatch the stucco, or repaint the entire building etc and will have massive special assessments to pay for it.
Repairs are small now, because the building is relatively new, so dues can remain low. But if you are not saving at least $100k per year, then you will be in big trouble in about 5-7 years. BIG TROUBLE.
Reserves are necessary, period. To go down a road of ZERO reserves is just plain dumb and would indicate that a building has short term owners, not long term owners. If a building has a good 80% in reserves of the actual cost when that cost comes due it is doing a decent job of accounting for reserves. Reserves are for specific projects, usually large scale replacements such roofs, asphalt, etc. Special assessments are for unplanned items, usually repairs or some sort of upgrading or perhaps shortfalls in insurance claims after a disaster…and shortfalls in reserves or to pay off short term borrowing for the same.
I would steer clear of any building with ZERO reserves…even the magical, fantasy land of 1800 Club.
I am still waiting to hear from anyone which building is setting aside money for the reserves. If all things being equal, and no one has reserves, I would take the building with the lowest HOA. Thank You.
“In our building we have 1 delinquency over 90 days”
OK AJ, I conceede. You are right, your experience in 1800 is unique. I myself, I don’t live in a highrise condo building. I live in a subdivision of SFH with a way too small clubhouse w/ pool and tennis court. At first I didn’t understand why I had to pay $300/year HOA fees until I saw the budget. We tried to fire the Mangaement Co, we fired the landscaping company and tried to make other changes you guys have made but our HOA’s are still up significantly as are those of communities around here. It could also be because we are paying for reserves up front and the beavers were annoyed by our vegas style fountain. AJ instead if fighting everyone I hope you have taken the time to ask yourself one guestion. That quesion is if it is so simple to bring your HOA fees down to 43c/sf/mo why hasn’t owners in other buildings done the same, “fired 4 unnecessary employees, hired one additional security gaurd, got rid of a landscaper, rental plants(!!), devised a lot of energy saving methods and saved a lot of money”. Maybe those owners don’t care about he extra $200/mo they could be saving. If your cost is about $40-50% less than comps in your area then why are you surprised folks would be skeptical?. If you guys are making all the decisions about running the Condo then it seems as though the developer has effectively turned control over to the owners. Please note I have no interest in Bashing 1800 club, I have no plans of buying a condo anywhere at anyprice (well if they gave it away for a $1). So I am not one of those hoping prices would crash in your building so I can steal a deal. I commented on my experience here at my Subdivision and even though I don’t like the price hikes I am on there case to make sure they have enough reserves in case deliquencies go higher. Keep on thinking you don’t need a reserve fund.
Yes, no reserves is just lunacy, ESPECIALLY in a place like Miami where many if not most owners are underwater and equity loans are all but impossible. Bragging about low delinquency is great today, but wait until the inevitable $10,000- or $20,000-per-unit special assessment hits. It sounds like the owners at 1800 either are ignorant, can’t afford the proper fee level, and/or figure they’ll be long gone from 1800 when it comes time to pay the piper.
Also, AJ, I seriously wasn’t trying to be a wise guy above. The fact the developer went to bat to defend and keep the management company seems like at least a minor red flag.
“What is the difference if the money is collected in advance, anticipating a catastrophe or after? You are paying the same amount either way”
That statement shows your ignorance.
Ask Ford or GM better yet ask the workers (former) of Lehman Brothers.
I hope for everyone at 1800 sake you are not on the board after that statement.
makes me think – Yep, non-funded retirement/benefit accounts at GM pretty much sunk it and now they are being cut…. It is easy to be the “hero” and say we’ve cut costs and brag, meanwhile you don’t invest in the future. Just like GM easier to make promises about future payments, a lot harder to meet those payments when actually due. Another analogy is to raise a company’s earnings by cutting/eliminating R&D spending….sounds nice to have doubled the earnings…until you realize they just cut off the future of the company and ended it as a going concern…. Short-sighted, stupid. If you see the HOA fees as abnormally high or low, then you should investigate further and like in 1800 Club realize that the current owners aren’t willing and/or able to invest in the buildings future.
I know for a fact that the building I’m planning on buying into collects two months maintenance for reserves at closing, as well as sets away a percentage each month for the reserve account.
WHAT A JOKE!!!!!!! somebody is trying to flip a condo in Aventura that he just bought and make a 200K $$$$$ profit overnight!!! UNIT 1112 0r PH 12 as it’s called now at the new listing price of $$$499K was just purchased a few weeks ago for $299K HOA is $894 a month?? he’ll even throw in a dock for an additional $75K (big sport)This unit is available at “UPTOWN MARINA LOFTS” it’s listed on Lucas’s site here.GUESS WE’VE BOTTOMED OUT????? Any ideas about this one????The BOOM is on.
RENTER TOM…..what do you have to say about that building in Aventura??/Is it worth 200K more than last month???
MMT
“AJ instead if fighting everyone I hope you have taken the time to ask yourself one guestion. That quesion is if it is so simple to bring your HOA fees down to 43c/sf/mo why hasn’t owners in other buildings done the same”
You think I don’t ask myself that question all the time? I still do not get an answer to that from anyone. I am asking the people here the same question too. But unfortunately there are very few or no home owners here in this blog and more wannabe home owners. So that Q is left un answered.
OK, leave that subject aside, I am asking for one last time (my third time), tell me which large condo building either in Miami or Miami Beach has substantial reserves or any reserves at all. If you do not have an answer to that, Please, all you bleeding hearts for the reserves do me (and everyone else) a favor and shut up.
In fact forget about reserves, many large buildings are running in red, not even able to match the receipts and expenses. They would give an arm and a leg just to balance their books, let alone have a rainy day fund.
Mr. JL Winston, are you sure those are the same units? 1112, the one that sold recently has its sq. footage listed at 1362 sq. feet, and maintenance is $748/month. The one that you noticed listed recently, PH-12 is supposedly 1,600 sq. feet and maintenance is $894/month.
let’s be clear – an HOA that fails to raise funds to reserve for future exigencies is either reckless or stupid. it’s certainly not good business planning and places the whole building at risk.
100% POSITIVE the maintenance #’s are screwy 1112 and PH 12 are the SAME UNITSThe sq. footage is also wrong some include balconys in that building
Mr. J L Whinston, if that’s the case, I would imagine there is some sort of fraud going on there. The unit sold at full asking price after only being listed for a short time, and is now back on the market with a $200k bump.
Thats what I was thinking DJ.Just another case of FRAUD.
REBAR SPALLING
After about ten years every condo building anywhere near the ocean or bay will incur HUGE assessments due to the corrosive aspect of salt air and water which eats away and destroys concrete and the underlying rebar which is very expensive to replace. Ask any experts about the technical name – its called “Spalling”. Balconys and railings become unsafe and are subject to building inspectors closing your building down. Two recent examples that I know of are Castle Beach on Collins and then I had a friend who lived at the “Palace” on Brickell a few years back that was special assessed $18,000. for replacement of damaged corroded rebar and concrete. It is very common allmost guranteedand I would ask to see maintenance records on any building over ten years old and would look for reserves to pay for this. Pay me now or pay me later.
Kramer – interesting…. That must only apply to rebar that somehow is exposed or partially exposed? One thing I noticed at the Solis in SIB under construction, it has been stalled for nearly a year and all the rebar and metals are looking fairly rusty….didn’t know if those things were supposed to get covered and protected under concrete or what….could be a mess as these buildings that are stopped mid construction begin to rot.
I agree %100 with jc!
my understanding is the majority of HOA fees should be going into insurance costs. large discrepancies between similar buildings and HOA fees signal to me either mismanagement (on the high end) or perhaps a lack of proper insurance (on the low end). reserves are critical to build up now if you want to sell your unit in 5-7 years. people downstream will definately look at the quality of reserves when buying into a building around year 2015. special assessments are a penalty on owners at a specific point in time, and reserves do a much better job of spreading the risk of ownership over time. That $150k bargain condo just lost its appeal after a couple of years and $50 worth of assessments!
Also regarding increasing HOA fees RT recently mentioned an article in the Sun Sentinel that effectively allows Citizens – the state run insurer to allow a 10% increase this year in windstorm fees – which afterall is probably a buildings largest expense. First, your Citizens Windstorm Insurance comes with HUGE deductibles and then you are subject to them denying a major portion of your claim should we get hit by a major hurricane. Secondly, this bill passed by the legislature has a “Catch UP” provision, which allows them to increase insurance rates on windstorm 10% for the next 5 years to help pay for what they call “A 100 year storm”. Either way its your Crony Republican legislators up in Tallahassee doing the insurance industrys bidding. Why do guys keep voting Republican?
RT
Actually even the underlying rebar eventually will become corroded even if not exposed as the salty air will eventually seep in to degrade the underlying rebar and will have to be repaired or replaced. This is from personal experience as in 2002 i made an offer on a single family home about 3-4 blocks from the ocean and the home inspection company I hired warned me of this after his inspection and showed me the damage he had found. Owner refused to pay and I walked from the deal.
Kramer – The spalling must apply to externally exposed walls, balconies and not the internal/enclosed areas that don’t get such exposures since there is no way to replace the rebar in the entire building. With that said, proper construction and maintenance to make sure holes, cracks, drilled holes, or other penetrations are properly sealed/caulked/etc. I wouldn’t want an HOA to be penny wise and pound foolish, that’s for sure.
AJ – The building I am in has always collected adequate reserves based on professional estimates. There was a budget vote whether to collect reserves in the next budget or not, the owners voted to collect…smart, very smart.
RT, I would have no problem with reserves if it is kept in a safe and the key thrown away. But the problem is the money is available for all kinds of uses and the uses are very loosely defined, sometimes used even for cosmetic purposes too. All it takes is one arse hole among the 5 board members to squander away the money. And most often than not there will always be one arse hole on the board of directors.
AJ — How do you figure one person could squander the reserves? I’ve never heard of an HOA where one board member could write checks or withdraw money.
Anyway, I could understand an HOA of a brand-new building perhaps keeping fees as low as possible right now, while times are tough, but to advocate a blanket no-reserves policy from now until it’s time for major repairs seems like playing Russian roulette with the condo’s future.
AJ,
Its completely obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. This must be your first condo. One guy on the board squandering the reserve fund away?
Nearly every HOA requires two signatures for checks above a certain amount (say $500). The treasurer sees every nickel going in and out, and usually is the co-signer. Then there is the HOA management firm and property manager doing the checks and balances. Third, most HOAs have a Finance Committee that meet once a month to review everything financial.
And fourth, every condo resident can request and review the financial records at any time they want. Trust me, there are always 4-5 residents in a building who do this once a month and will question the board on every nickel.
With no reserve fund, 1800 Club is one dangerous condo I would avoid. I bet the deductible on the building insurance is sky high. $200,000? $300,000?
MR WHINSTON that is incredible that you noticed that SCAM.It sure looks like another case of fraud to me too.Theres no way that a condo goes up 200 thousand dollars in that short of time.Or maybe the person is just wishful thinking.I happen to know that building and its not that hot a building.I think its full of renters as well.All I can say is good luck to the scammer.
AJ – can you elaborate on or post a link to the St. Marks lounge/restaurant on 19th and Biscayne you mentioned? It would definitely be nice to add some nightlife to the area…
Ryan,
They do not have a website yet. But work is proceeding full swing and should open in 6 months. Any further news, I will be the first to share here.
Anyone know when the New York Bagel on Biscayne and 25th (opposite corner of Gallery Art) going to open?
WRT HOA and reserves, I will comment no further as guys neck deep in debt and maxed out credit cards are teaching me the importance of setting aside for a rainy day!
On my last trip to Miami I have never met more broke arse mofos than I have ever encountered in my life. Living on the edge and on borrowed money but all flashy, stylish, driving fancy cars and sipping $23 martinis. And probably some of them are on this blog too. How many of you actually have 6 to 9 months of reserve funds to save your arse in case you lose your job? I guess not many. Maybe 1 or 2. So I think I will say thanks but no thanks to your wonderful financial advice.
easy on AJ…i’ve seen boards royally wreck a building for their own benefit or out of sheer stupidity. maybe one guy can’t do all the wrecking…but put him in a league of idiots and there’s no telling what can be done. there’s a building either in north bay village (or maybe sunny isles?) that nearly collapsed b/c of an inept board a few years back.
anyway, a happy medium must be reached. on the front end, a building must build reserves to protect current residents as well as future residents. it’s smart and maintains value. on the back end, unit owners must be vigilant that the board is doing the right thing, acting in the best interests of the building and not fiscally irresponsible. simple fact is that when you buy into a condo, you’re buying a ticket on a boat where everyone has to row for things to go well.
jcrimes, always the sage that you are. I guess we can retire this subject now.
Wats up with your condo search? The last I heard from you, you were not terribly impressed with the Epic townhouse/river loft. Any other new developments? Will you take a second look at the parc lofts. The area will get gentrified in 2-3 years, especially as the Bayview market is rising next to it in a very short time. Maybe even Cynergie Lofts when they come back on the market.
Anyone know the name of the building on top of New York Bagel? It looks loft like to me. Nice building at the Biscayne and 25th (ish)
What’s hilarious about A-tard is that he can do these mental gymnastics. I agree that Miami and most of the US is filled with broke asses. That’s why condo prices will continue to crash. Because a great majority of people can not afford to purchase these over priced shoe boxes. People with money (I’m not one of them) are too smart to spend it on your murder club condo. AJ you’re a pauper just like the rest of us. Well except for all the rich lawyers , renter tom and wild bill…
Cognitive dissonance
Two bedroom condos in the next year or two will average $1000.
Two bedroom condos HOA fees will average $1000.
New Fannie Mae guidelines require reserves of 15% of the annual budget.
I’m sure that 1800 Club collected two months condo fee from new buyers to fund the reserve account, but bet it doesn’t meet 15%.
BMW (Mo),
Truth hurts. Doesnt it? Looks like you are one of those BMW driving, cleaned out bank accounts and maxed out credit card guys I was talking about. But instead of saving old fashioned way to buy a flat, you hit upon a brain wave to start a liar pit of a website/blog to spread disinformation. When you changed the look of your site a few months ago, you removed your stated goal that was proudly displayed on your old home page “to discourage at least 10 people a month from buying a condo in Miami so that you can secure a condo for yourself at crashed prices”.
If only you spent your time and energy to fighting out of control taxes and HOA, you could have redeemed yourself. It is never too late, steer your blog towards a higher goal instead of showing pictures with crime scene outlines and irrelevant made up graphs.
southbeachsand said: “And fourth, every condo resident can request and review the financial records at any time they want. Trust me, there are always 4-5 residents in a building who do this once a month and will question the board on every nickel.”
– You mean there is more than one AJ??? LOL
A-tard, I drive a dodge stratus! M3s are nice though. I wish I could be a cool 40 year dj like yourself. Jetting around the east coast flying coach. Staying with elderly couples at 500 brickell because I’m too cheap to pay for a hotel. Acting like I “love walking” because I’m too cheap to pay for a cab. LOL.
My husband and I have been sitting on the sidelines for 2 years, and are tired of renting. We’re ready to plant roots, and are considering Jade Brickell. We need 2 bedrooms + home office, and the 3 bdrm prices at Jade seem to have dropped to manageable levels.
We would appreciate any opinions about the building quality, location, lifestyle etc.
Also, please advise all negatives: HOA, parking problems etc
Thank you!
Whoa, you guys are starting to get personal on this blog. I thought we were past that?
AJ, you are a fanatic about 1800 and the pace park area. If anyone says anything that might be remotely considered negative about 1800 or the area you go ape shit on this blog. I don’t hear you get this excited about your other condos though. I suspect some people talk shit about your building to get a reaction out of you and it works everytime.
AJ, I would also recommend you not to react to BMW since he is a sick person with very sick reactions. If people are trying to be honest here he attacks them if something contradicts his views. You know that everything that I write here is backed up by my own experiences and his reactions are rude, low class and simply very sick.
As far as 1800 Club is concerned I visited it once and I really liked the building: great location(for those who like the area which I happen to like), simple but elegant and not overdone design, great amenities and the best views that I’ve seen so far.
Now, I would like to share some personal experiences with mortgage approvals. I am in the process of selling one of my apartments and buyers are more than qualifies and pre approved. Closing has been delayed for about 2 weeks because bank asked 150 questions about the building: HOA, insurance, foreclosures and etc. Building management is not in a rush to provide that info since it requires some work on their part. If I knew that I would have personally pushed them to provide this info. So my recommendation if you are selling or buying try to be on the top of the closing process and follow up all the steps on the way to avoid extentions.
Lara – Good advice for those looking to buy or sell when the buyer is financing the purchase.
Lara, MMT,
Thanks for the advice. It is not a knee jerk reaction. Believe it or not, there are people who believe some canards spread by this guy (just one guy with 2 or 3 different and changing aliases). It takes time and energy to respond to such total lies but I just want to set the record straight WRT Miami Real Estate especially when this guy has dedicated an entire blog/site to lies.
You have noticed that he says so much personal shit about me which is totally untrue. But I have never corrected that. I don’t care. He can say all he wants to, about me. Thats why his #200 will go un-answered.
Once DJ remarked “AJ, someone seems to totally hate 1800 Club on that site (Mo’s Blog)”.
I have always known who it is. Now you all do too. It is not that this guy hates the 1800 Club. If he gets a direct East facing flat in that building for the price he is willing to pay, he would be salivating like a dog and slurping it up. But by hitting at 1800, he mistakenly thinks he is getting back at me. All said and done, I am the only one who keeps opposing this guys lies and ideas here. Even Lucas (for whatever reason) knows this guys mischief but he humors him or tolerates him on this site. I am not happy about it but I cant tell Lucas what to do on his own site. I have even called Lucas at some unearthly hour once when this guy made a not so veiled threat against me on this blog. Lucas removed the post quick enough but expressed his inability to ban him.
And so here we are. Distracted from discussing the real issues and wasting time on this sociopath.
I’m convinced BMW m3 protests so much about 1800 that he himself doesn’t understand his utter infatuation with the property.
It sure would be nice BNW M3 and others would quit with the childish personal attacks and name calling. All the B.S. really detracts from the blog.
still looking AJ.
i did like the townhomes at epic. problem is, the type of person that would buy such a place (i.e., me), simply won’t spend what they’re currently asking. everything facing the river was near or over $1million. even the units facing west were over 600k. for that kind of scratch, i’ll stay on the beach.
looking at some other stuff as well…homes on the beach and normandly isle and a few new boutique projects that came online in the past five years. always will like parclofts but don’t see myself living there at this point in my life (and i can more or less confirm that filling station is kaput…too bad). probably end up buying something by december. the market still has a ways to go but the stuff i’m seeing, i’m comfortable with the price (sans epic…which is truly tragic b/c out of everything that has been built in the past few years, it’s the only project that truly blew me away when i toured it…the quality of the finishes in each unit makes everything else look like a condo conversion.
Interesting article from the WSJ on wisdom of real estate investment…
http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/107122/Is-Your-Home-a-Good-Investment
Lucas
Would you please remove post # 208. That is really offensive.
jcrimes, thanks about Epic update. The prices are very high there. But the location can’t be beat. With the impending opening of Met 2, Epic developer will not discount as he knows he has a winner on hand. I think Ugo Colubo has a lot of staying power.
Lucas did not do a story on Epic. Would have been an interesting read. Lucas you also missed Everglades and Infinity when they opened. You only did ICON among the big 6. But I will keep pestering you until you come up with a nice pictorial story on Paramount opening lol. But if you are going to ignore Marquis, I wont be that disappointed. As per Samir, Marquis finishes are outstanding. But that godzilla sized building does not evoke much passion in me for some reason (probably due to the lack of landscaping or greenery around itself or any of the surrounding buildings).
Since I left Miami, I am not getting news about some of the latest developments. Anyone with news on Paramount opening date?
Kramer,
I also took a double take when I read that post. I could not believe it! But on the other hand I was thinking, let it be there. Let the whole world see what lara and others meant when they say “he is a sick person with very sick reactions”. I think removing that post would be actually doing him a favor.
I guess after this revolting “joke” he either will stay on the sidelines for a while or resurface with a new handle as he always does.
#208 – Deleted
Any info or comments on Harbour House in Bal Harbour? The area is really nice but I have never visited the building. It is a conversion, but I believe it was totally gutted. Any info would be appreciated.
I missed #208….what did it say? Or at least what was it about?
Renter Tom you mised a very interesting comment #208 I believe it was about your buddy AJ????
I just want to know what was “offensive”……I missed it. Was it really that bad? Was it about AJ’s statement “I have even called Lucas at some unearthly hour once when this guy made a not so veiled threat against me on this blog” which I found odd to say the least esp. since AJ makes some pretty off the wall statements about others quite often.
RT, Why don’t you call Mo and ask him yourself? I’m sure you got his number.
DJ – Very bad taste man, very bad. But I did chuckle.
AJ – Who is this Mo that you speak of? Is he out to get you? Does he follow you? Just curious.
Good grief, this thread is turning into a circus.
In an effort to get back on topic, I’ll ask again: Does anyone know the ballpark pre-construction pricing (per square foot) at Continuum North? Thanks.
Is that Continuum I Joe? If so, see below:
Unit # Bed/Bath Sq.Ft. $ Sq.Ft. Price Date
1207 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,041,000 05/2008
LOFT1 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,965,000 05/2008
1907 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,001,000 05/2008
1408 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,940,000 05/2008
1607 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,195,000 05/2008
LOFT2 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,959,000 05/2008
2605 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,514,000 05/2008
603 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,450,000 05/2008
1505 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,010,000 05/2008
1401 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,940,000 05/2008
1102 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,409,000 04/2008
902 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,990,000 04/2008
2304 0 / 0 0 $0 $807,000 04/2008
1204 0 / 0 0 $0 $858,000 04/2008
3401 0 / 0 0 $0 $4,275,000 04/2008
3301 0 / 0 0 $0 $3,440,000 04/2008
3004 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,676,000 04/2008
3204 0 / 0 0 $0 $3,343,000 04/2008
805 0 / 0 0 $0 $889,000 04/2008
2301 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,977,900 04/2008
3101 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,908,000 04/2008
2001 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,300,000 04/2008
1205 0 / 0 0 $0 $960,400 04/2008
1805 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,333,000 04/2008
1104 0 / 0 0 $0 $825,000 04/2008
1004 0 / 0 0 $0 $817,000 04/2008
904 0 / 0 0 $0 $772,000 04/2008
503 0 / 0 0 $0 $330,000 04/2008
703 0 / 0 0 $0 $792,000 04/2008
1203 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,326,000 04/2008
1503 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,855,400 04/2008
1703 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,658,000 04/2008
1702 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,658,000 04/2008
2503 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,644,000 04/2008
1502 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,855,400 04/2008
3003 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,300,000 04/2008
3303 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,200,000 04/2008
1202 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,326,000 04/2008
504 0 / 0 0 $0 $365,000 04/2008
604 0 / 0 0 $0 $660,000 04/2008
704 0 / 0 0 $0 $695,000 04/2008
2902 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,825,000 04/2008
804 0 / 0 0 $0 $722,000 04/2008
3402 0 / 0 0 $0 $3,400,000 04/2008
2305 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,800,000 04/2008
1008 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,870,400 04/2008
1706 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,023,000 04/2008
808 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,831,150 04/2008
1508 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,929,000 04/2008
707 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,000,000 04/2008
807 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,831,150 04/2008
801 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,831,150 04/2008
701 0 / 0 0 $0 $931,000 04/2008
612 0 / 0 0 $0 $494,000 04/2008
2804 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,620,000 04/2008
1407 0 / 0 0 $0 $979,000 04/2008
1707 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,500,000 04/2008
1807 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,129,000 04/2008
TWN4 0 / 0 0 $0 $3,350,000 04/2008
708 0 / 0 0 $0 $931,000 04/2008
1208 0 / 0 0 $0 $3,475,000 04/2008
1608 2 / 2 1,757 $1,067 $1,875,000 04/2008
1606 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,019,000 04/2008
1201 0 / 0 0 $0 $3,475,000 04/2008
801 2 / 2 1,591 $833 $1,325,000 04/2008
606 0 / 0 0 $0 $485,000 04/2008
506 0 / 0 0 $0 $850,000 04/2008
610 0 / 0 0 $0 $701,000 04/2008
1501 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,929,000 04/2008
511 0 / 0 0 $0 $503,000 04/2008
2306 2 / 2 1,870 $1,016 $1,900,000 04/2008
1001 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,870,400 04/2008
2405 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,660,000 04/2008
1506 0 / 0 0 $0 $999,000 04/2008
806 0 / 0 0 $0 $846,000 04/2008
1602 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,775,000 03/2008
3106 2 / 2 2,048 $1,123 $2,300,000 03/2008
3002 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,800,000 03/2008
3003 3 / 4 3,335 $1,424 $4,750,000 03/2008
2702 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,591,000 03/2008
1902 0 / 0 0 $0 $4,485,000 03/2008
2402 0 / 0 0 $0 $3,315,000 03/2008
2102 0 / 0 0 $0 $3,100,000 03/2008
2302 0 / 0 0 $0 $3,500,000 03/2008
1802 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,500,000 03/2008
TWN2 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,651,000 03/2008
1801 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,600,000 03/2008
1901 0 / 0 0 $0 $4,941,000 03/2008
2101 0 / 0 0 $0 $3,100,000 03/2008
2401 0 / 0 0 $0 $3,130,000 03/2008
2501 0 / 0 0 $0 $3,450,000 03/2008
2801 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,699,000 03/2008
1101 0 / 0 0 $0 $3,200,000 03/2008
2901 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,822,000 03/2008
3001 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,781,000 03/2008
3201 0 / 0 0 $0 $4,275,000 03/2008
901 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,630,000 03/2008
802 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,075,000 03/2008
1002 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,321,000 03/2008
601 0 / 0 0 $0 $495,000 03/2008
502 0 / 0 0 $0 $398,000 03/2008
1402 0 / 0 0 $0 $3,700,000 03/2008
1701 0 / 0 0 $0 $4,950,000 03/2008
3202 0 / 0 0 $0 $6,750,000 03/2008
1808 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,600,000 03/2008
1206 0 / 0 0 $0 $982,000 03/2008
1106 0 / 0 0 $0 $974,000 03/2008
706 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,100,000 03/2008
2505 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,764,000 03/2008
2205 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,800,000 03/2008
1605 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,030,000 03/2008
1405 0 / 0 0 $0 $995,000 03/2008
1105 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,200,000 03/2008
1005 0 / 0 0 $0 $931,000 03/2008
905 0 / 0 0 $0 $965,000 03/2008
1406 0 / 0 0 $0 $964,200 03/2008
1806 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,087,000 03/2008
907 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,031,000 03/2008
1908 0 / 0 0 $0 $4,941,000 03/2008
1108 0 / 0 0 $0 $3,200,000 03/2008
2008 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,274,000 03/2008
609 0 / 0 0 $0 $427,000 03/2008
908 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,630,000 03/2008
608 0 / 0 0 $0 $480,000 03/2008
2007 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,044,000 03/2008
1507 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,450,000 03/2008
1107 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,038,000 03/2008
1007 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,021,000 03/2008
705 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,150,000 03/2008
605 0 / 0 0 $0 $599,000 03/2008
903 0 / 0 0 $0 $902,000 03/2008
3203 0 / 0 0 $0 $6,750,000 03/2008
2703 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,950,000 03/2008
2603 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,620,000 03/2008
2203 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,476,860 03/2008
1903 0 / 0 0 $0 $4,485,000 03/2008
1803 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,500,000 03/2008
1603 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,775,000 03/2008
1403 0 / 0 0 $0 $3,700,000 03/2008
1103 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,200,000 03/2008
803 0 / 0 0 $0 $810,000 03/2008
3403 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,407,000 03/2008
1604 0 / 0 0 $0 $883,000 03/2008
505 0 / 0 0 $0 $465,000 03/2008
613 0 / 0 0 $0 $835,000 03/2008
3104 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,707,000 03/2008
2704 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,533,000 03/2008
2504 0 / 0 0 $0 $894,000 03/2008
2404 0 / 0 0 $0 $832,000 03/2008
1704 0 / 0 0 $0 $897,000 03/2008
1804 0 / 0 0 $0 $1,201,000 03/2008
2104 0 / 0 0 $0 $821,000 03/2008
2204 0 / 0 0 $0 $950,000 03/2008
2904 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,825,000 03/2008
TH-7 2 / 4 2,365 $1,311 $3,100,000 02/2008
1908 2 / 2 1,757 $1,039 $1,825,000 01/2008
3606 2 / 2 2,048 $1,221 $2,500,000 01/2008
1003 0 / 0 0 $0 $2,097,000 01/2008
2107 2 / 2 1,870 $749 $1,400,000 12/2007
705 2 / 2 1,869 $803 $1,500,000 11/2007
3406 2 / 2 2,048 $1,172 $2,400,000 11/2007
1706 3 / 3 2,508 $1,495 $3,750,000 11/2007
901 2 / 2 1,591 $959 $1,525,000 10/2007
1710 2 / 3 2,122 $1,049 $2,225,000 10/2007
605 2 / 2 1,869 $883 $1,650,000 09/2007
1806 3 / 3 2,508 $1,475 $3,700,000 09/2007
702 1 / 1 1,201 $806 $967,500 09/2007
3207 3 / 4 2,954 $972 $2,870,000 07/2007
903 1 / 1 1,365 $692 $945,000 07/2007
2804 3 / 3 2,985 $1,843 $5,500,000 07/2007
2803 2 / 2 1,791 $3,071 $5,500,000 07/2007
3203 3 / 4 3,335 $1,349 $4,500,000 06/2007
2602 2 / 2 1,735 $1,014 $1,760,000 06/2007
910 2 / 3 2,122 $919 $1,950,000 06/2007
3303 3 / 4 3,335 $1,169 $3,900,000 05/2007
1102 1 / 1 1,201 $770 $925,000 05/2007
2607 2 / 2 1,757 $996 $1,750,000 05/2007
1203 1 / 1 1,365 $788 $1,075,000 04/2007
806 3 / 3 2,508 $1,326 $3,325,000 03/2007
2001 2 / 2 1,591 $959 $1,525,000 03/2007
3401 2 / 2 1,940 $1,134 $2,200,000 03/2007
1502 2 / 2 2,569 $856 $2,200,000 03/2007
1601 2 / 2 1,591 $911 $1,450,000 03/2007
3407 3 / 4 2,954 $1,354 $4,000,000 02/2007
1603 1 / 1 1,365 $714 $975,000 01/2007
707 2 / 2 1,870 $1,070 $2,000,000 01/2007
601 2 / 2 1,591 $801 $1,275,000 01/2007
2406 2 / 2 1,870 $936 $1,750,000 12/2006
2908 2 / 2 1,595 $1,019 $1,625,000 12/2006
607 2 / 2 1,870 $963 $1,800,000 12/2006
2703 2 / 2 1,791 $1,228 $2,200,000 11/2006
508 2 / 2 1,757 $740 $1,300,000 11/2006
2706 2 / 2 1,870 $989 $1,850,000 11/2006
609 2 / 2 1,595 $752 $1,200,000 10/2006
3705 2 / 2 1,793 $957 $1,715,000 10/2006
1702 1 / 1 1,201 $708 $850,000 09/2006
503 1 / 1 1,365 $731 $998,000 09/2006
TH-8 2 / 4 2,365 $1,247 $2,950,000 09/2006
1802 1 / 1 1,201 $624 $750,000 08/2006
2409 2 / 3 2,122 $1,037 $2,200,000 07/2006
3502 2 / 2 1,791 $1,022 $1,830,000 05/2006
1105 2 / 2 1,869 $910 $1,700,000 05/2006
3304 3 / 3 2,508 $1,156 $2,900,000 05/2006
1705 2 / 2 1,869 $589 $1,100,000 04/2006
2605 3 / 3 2,847 $1,106 $3,150,000 04/2006
3105 2 / 2 1,870 $936 $1,750,000 03/2006
3402 2 / 2 1,791 $955 $1,710,000 03/2006
1209 2 / 2 1,595 $978 $1,560,000 03/2006
2806 2 / 2 1,870 $936 $1,750,000 02/2006
TH-10 3 / 3 2,900 $1,207 $3,500,000 02/2006
1409 2 / 2 1,595 $925 $1,475,000 12/2005
3905 2 / 2 1,793 $1,060 $1,900,000 12/2005
1607 2 / 2 1,870 $989 $1,850,000 12/2005
2505 3 / 3 2,847 $1,089 $3,100,000 12/2005
1606 3 / 3 2,508 $1,715 $4,300,000 12/2005
3507 3 / 4 2,954 $922 $2,725,000 11/2005
3503 3 / 4 3,335 $1,034 $3,450,000 11/2005
1707 2 / 2 1,870 $1,070 $2,000,000 11/2005
TH-14 3 / 3 2,202 $772 $1,700,000 10/2005
2110 2 / 3 2,122 $928 $1,970,000 09/2005
3505 2 / 2 1,870 $914 $1,710,000 09/2005
3806 2 / 2 2,048 $1,099 $2,250,000 08/2005
3405 2 / 2 1,870 $869 $1,625,000 08/2005
1909 2 / 2 1,595 $1,003 $1,600,000 08/2005
2101 2 / 2 1,591 $943 $1,500,000 07/2005
2606 2 / 2 1,870 $888 $1,660,000 07/2005
TH-5 2 / 4 2,365 $1,269 $3,000,000 06/2005
3004 3 / 3 2,508 $1,166 $2,925,000 06/2005
2002 1 / 1 1,201 $808 $970,000 06/2005
906 3 / 3 2,508 $1,077 $2,700,000 06/2005
2103 1 / 1 1,365 $634 $865,000 06/2005
810 2 / 3 2,122 $794 $1,685,000 06/2005
1803 1 / 1 1,365 $685 $935,000 05/2005
3301 2 / 2 1,940 $1,121 $2,175,000 05/2005
802 1 / 1 1,201 $745 $895,000 05/2005
TH-13 3 / 3 2,202 $545 $1,200,000 05/2005
608 2 / 2 1,757 $882 $1,550,000 05/2005
3204 3 / 3 2,508 $1,126 $2,825,000 04/2005
2109 2 / 2 1,595 $776 $1,237,500 04/2005
2604 3 / 3 2,985 $1,156 $3,450,000 04/2005
1407 2 / 2 1,870 $695 $1,300,000 03/2005
1708 2 / 2 1,757 $768 $1,350,000 03/2005
3005 2 / 2 1,870 $922 $1,725,000 03/2005
2901 2 / 2 1,591 $779 $1,240,000 03/2005
2503 2 / 2 1,791 $879 $1,575,000 03/2005
2701 2 / 2 1,591 $733 $1,166,800 03/2005
803 1 / 1 1,365 $604 $825,000 03/2005
1007 2 / 2 1,870 $642 $1,200,000 02/2005
1008 2 / 2 1,757 $785 $1,380,000 01/2005
1009 2 / 2 1,595 $737 $1,175,000 01/2005
1110 2 / 3 2,122 $613 $1,300,000 01/2005
1507 2 / 2 1,870 $668 $1,250,000 01/2005
…or at least those were the closing numbers. I would suspect some are at the pre-con pricing, check out the lowest prices are probably the ones.
ooops, just realized that is the South tower……sorry about that.
RT — Yes, I’m looking for the North pre-con numbers, but thanks for the effort.
Re: Continuum North, unit 1901/8 sold last week for $2,900,000 after 392 days on the market. Original list price apparently was $2,999,999, so there wasn’t much price movement. As a combined unit, I believe it comes with double HOA fees, so the buyer must really have liked/wanted the unit. Probably looking at $60,000 or more per year just in HOA + taxes for this unit.
That 1901/08 line is the best line. Direct view north with 180 degrees views that will never ever be obstructed by another building. You pay dues based on how much square feet you have, so the owner pays a fortune, more than $60,000. But that is also a really big unit.
Couple of recent articles…
#1
Condo market fights to recover as prices remain down
Paul Herstein is in a good spot.
The Seattle oncologist has shopped condominiums in eight cities — including San Diego, Miami and Chicago— for the past year. He wants a top floor on a building with a water view. He can pay cash. And he’s in no rush to buy.
“Time is probably on my side,” he says. “Sellers will have to become more realistic over the next year or so.”
The most recent housing figures indicate Herstein may be right, at least in some markets and in some price ranges.
While evidence mounts that the single-family-home market is stabilizing, the condominium market remains “substantially weaker,” says Lawrence Yun, chief economist for the National Association of Realtors.
FIND MORE STORIES IN: California | Miami | Seattle | San Diego | Las Vegas | Chicago | Minneapolis | Austin | Lawrence | Bradley | Miami-Dade County | Edina | South Florida metropolitan area | Minneapolis-St. Paul | Vashon
In April, resale condo and co-op sales nationwide were down 9.4% from a year ago vs. a 2.8% drop for single-family homes, the association said Wednesday. Median prices fared worse, too, with condo prices down 18.5% year-over-year vs. 15% for single-family homes.
More distress is likely for the condo market, says Bradley Hunter, chief economist for market researcher Metrostudy. He says some markets could see condo prices drop 60% from their peak in 2005 or 2006. While some single-family-home markets will hit bottom next year, Hunter doesn’t see that for the condo market until 2011. That’s because it typically takes years to construct condo projects so new units have continued to come on line despite the real estate downturn.
“It is absolutely a buyer’s market,” says Paul Berg, 73, a forensic psychologist who, with his wife, recently paid $1.4 million for a new, 2,000-square-foot condo in downtown San Diego. A year ago, the price was twice as high, Berg says.
For those on the selling side of the market, the downturn has been intense.
•Prices for condos in South Florida have plunged 40% to 50%, or more in some buildings, from original prices in 2004, 2005 and 2006, Metrostudy says. Recovery is far off. In Miami-Dade County, which includes downtown Miami, condo inventories are at a 41.5-month supply at the current sales rate, Hunter says. “That’s a mammoth number.”
•In Minneapolis-St. Paul, the average sales price per square foot for a condo is about 16% less than it was three years ago, says the Minneapolis Area Association of Realtors. Recent sales activity “has come to a grinding halt,” says downtown condo expert Kristen DuLac of Edina Realty.
•In Austin, buyers at a recent auction got condos for 15% to 20% less than similar units that sold in late 2008, says Rhett Winchell, president of California-based Kennedy Wilson Auction Group. His company has done almost three dozen condo auctions for builders in the last two years.
Additional challenges
The same factors dogging single-family-home sales have hurt the condo market, including rising unemployment, stock portfolio losses and tightening credit. The condo market faces additional challenges. For one, single-family-home prices in some markets have dropped so much they’re attracting what would have been condo buyers, Winchell says. Condo loans are also tougher to get now than single-family-home loans.
“Lenders have greatly tightened restrictions because they see condo properties as a little more risky,” Yun says, in part because occupancy rates in buildings can vary a lot.
To woo buyers, condo developers have been “aggressive with incentives,” says Wendy Leung, condo expert at John L. Scott Real Estate in Seattle. A new condo development there, Gallery, is offering buyers incentives such as a credit of 3% of the purchase price toward closing costs, or no homeowner dues until 2011.
Developers are also relying more on rentals. In Las Vegas, the number of rentals in some luxury high-rise condo buildings on or near the Strip has doubled in recent years, says Bruce Hiatt, owner of Luxury Realty Group. “Owners or developers are buying time,” he says.
In San Diego, Mark Mills, Realtor and condo expert for Re/Max Real Estate Consultants, estimates that 50% of the units in his San Diego condo building are owner occupied, down from 75% in 2004.
Despite the prospect of more distress ahead for the condo market, some markets show signs of improvement, Realtors say.
In April, Seattle had 13% fewer condos for sale than the same month a year earlier. Pending sales were up 1% year over year, Leung says.
Las Vegas’ Hiatt says prices have dropped so much that multiple offers are now common. He says he’s lost seven deals in recent weeks to multiple offers. “People didn’t expect this to happen until next year,” he says. “We are firming in price as well as demand.”
In San Diego County, resale condo prices in April were down 55% from their peak three years earlier, says market researcher MDA DataQuick.
That big plunge — and recent rise in sales activity — is encouraging, says San Diego condo developer Nat Bosa of Bosa Development. In July, it’ll reopen sales of the Bayside at Embarcadero condo project after a year of inactivity. “There are many more buyers out there now,” Bosa says.
Some buyers aren’t waiting for anyone to call an official bottom. Marianne Rose and her husband bought a Seattle condo in April. They paid $213,500 for a 568-square-foot unit near downtown. A year ago, similar units were selling for at least $240,000, says Rose, a therapist.
The condo gives the family, which includes four daughters ages 11, 15, 18 and 21, an alternative to commuting from their home on nearby Vashon Island. Rose’s husband, who works in network communications, works a block from the condo and one daughter attends a nearby high school. The couple expect to own the condo for decades.
“We’re probably crazy, taking a risk in this economy,” she says. “But you only know where the bottom is when you look back.”
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2009-05-27-real-estate-condos_N.htm
#2
South Florida home sales up for 9th straight month
Sales of existing homes and condos in both Miami-Dade and Broward counties surged in April for the ninth consecutive month, as prices continued spiraling downward along with job losses and foreclosures.
Buyers found prices on single-family homes off by as much as 39 percent in Miami-Dade from the same month last year and 36 percent in Broward County.
The median house price in Miami-Dade, or the point at which half of the 555 homes sold in April went for more and the other half for less, was $177,000, down from $291,900 a year ago.
Of 690 homes sold in Broward, the median price settled at $191,300, down from $298,100 last year. The national median house price, by way of comparison, was $170,200, down from $201,300 last April.
South Florida sales, however, bounded for the ninth month in a row compared to the year-ago period and easily outpaced the increase at the national level of 2.9 percent, as super bargains drew investors and first-time home buyers into the market.
Sales of previously lived in houses were up in Miami-Dade by 98 percent and by 33 percent in Broward.
Condo sales also rose — by 70 percent in Miami-Dade and 39 percent in Broward, on median prices that fell by 51 percent and 47 percent, respectively.
The median condo price in Miami-Dade fell to $133,500 from $275,000 last year. In Broward, the median price fell to $79,900 from $150,000.
As far as price declines go, William Hardin, director of real estate programs at Florida International University, said he couldn’t see how much farther they could fall, especially in Broward County.
”When you have a median condo at $80,000, by any measure that is a low price. All of these aren’t distressed properties. There may be some volatility there, but if people want to buy, they can buy. Someone who makes $30,000 to $35,000 a year can afford an $80,000 unit,” Hardin said.
He cautioned, however, that prices that appear to be touching bottom won’t necessarily be rising anytime soon, even though the number of homes on the market in both counties is shrinking at a significant clip with each month’s up-tick in sales.
”There is a lot of pending foreclosure activity,” Hardin said. “For every one house for sale, there is one in foreclosure that is not listed.”
Brad Hunter, chief economist for Metrostudy, a real estate research firm based in West Palm Beach, estimates that for home buyers intending to live in the property, now may be as good a time as ever to get in.
”Are they going to hit the exact bottom and buy at the lowest prices possible? Probably few people will hit it that exactly, but I don’t think there is much more downside for people buying for their own use in a good neighborhood that is not chock full of foreclosures,” Hunter said.
http://www.miamiherald.com/1460/story/1067909.html
Skate Park coming at the 19th street in OMNI area: Opening 2010 at a cost of $1.14 Million.
A new skate park is coming to “passive Biscayne Park” (I don’t know if you can really call this patch of grass a park) – making this the first public skate park in the City of Miami. Located at 150 NE 19th St in Miami the funding, estimated at just over a million dollars, has already been approved by commissioners.
As Downtown has grown and people have begun to move in there has been a sharp increase in the number of kids skating through Brickell and Downtown. Every day I see groups (5-30) of kids skating around the corporate plazas and parks of the area. Providing a public, safe, and creative urban space for them is a great idea! What currently is a rather drab and mediocre area of town will get a rather interesting and unique attraction that many people are sure to visit — even those from outside downtown.
Furthermore, this skate park will serve as another attraction for Downtown Miami — meaning this will be another reason to move to downtown and the surrounding areas! A part of town that now lacks enough pedestrians and “eyes on the street” to make the area feel safe (especially at night) will get a valid activity that will have various groups of people out on the streets. This is not just another passive park — it will be an active, unique, and diverse park that will breathe life into the urban fabric. Yet another (interesting I must say) piece of the city is coming together.
As residents continue to move in this trend should continue. New residents moving in will create more demand — just as kids skating in the streets has created a market for a skate park other needs must be fulfilled. Can anyone say diner, bookstore, or movie theater?
Also interesting is the fact that the skate park will be next to the old City of Miami graveyard. While some have voice objections – I think it is quite interesting and rather nice to have a cemetary next to a park — even if it is a skate park. Cities must encourage the diversity, mixing, and varied interactions that make cities great. In San Francisco, the Mission Dolores graveyard is directly next to and in plain sight of the elementary school playground and basketball courts.
In my opinion, within a dense urban environment kids skating next to a graveyard is perfectly acceptable and rather poetic (if I may say). These kinds of interesting urban interactions are what makes dense cities interesting incubators of human diversity, drama, and spontaneity.
For more information, the Biscayne Times has a wonderful article on the story.
http://www.biscaynetimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=208:the-kids-will-be-grinding-for-air-in-the-funbox&catid=50:community-news&Itemid=166
southbeachsand — No question the “1” line is best in Continuum, but I was still surprised the price drop was as small as it was.
Condo fees in that building seem odd, unless the numbers in various listings I’ve seen have been incorrect. I’ve seen 4-bedrooms listed with lower fees than some 3-bedrooms, and all of the combined units seem to have higher fees than single units with more square feet. I wonder if there’s a base per-unit charge and *then* a per-square-foot charge on top of that. Otherwise, some of the HOA numbers don’t seem to make sense.
AJ
Can u do me a favor and provide a link here for the front page story at Biscayne Times entitled “Gravy Train” about the high salarys in the City of Miami. Thanks.
AJ
I cant seem to link to this but if AJ does get this article entitled “Gravy Train” – towards the bottom of the article u can enlarge a copy of a spreadsheet with a list of 200 City of Miami employees and their titles who made over $200,000. last year. Incredible!
AJ – You’re a nut. Seriously, you should take up writing bs for some stupid company. Your post about the skate park and how we should have more mix uses with cemeteries….cemeteries and schools, cemeteries and parks is silly. Honestly, maybe you have convinced yourself and are just expressing your own thoughts to further convince yourself, but for the rest of us, not everything should get mixed together…and when it is, it isn’t necessarily positive. To think a skate park will be the genesis for massive revitalization and spur investments for diners and theaters sounds more manic than anything…..I know your excited about it, but take the d*mn meds before posting. Just make sure the stores around that area don’t sell spray paint….. I’m calling you out on this post….it is silly.
Here is the link for salary spreadsheet
http://biscaynetimes.com/images/stories/art_0509/MiamiSalaries.pdf
And here is the link for the full article
http://biscaynetimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=301:gravy-train&catid=46:features&Itemid=162
Lucas — I’m subscribed to your Continuum North RSS feed but whenever an article shows up in it — like today’s rental listing of unit 2505 — I get a “Not Found” error.
A sober, non-manic assessment….and not trying to even sell anyone on the luxury, excitement and exclusiveness of being adjacent to a cemetery or noisy/profanity filled skate park:
“Berkshire Hathaway’s Sokol: “No Green Shoots”
by CalculatedRisk on 5/28/2009 02:41:00 PM
From Reuters: MidAmerican’s Sokol sees US housing staying weak (ht Alexander, Cord)
David Sokol, chairman of Berkshire Hathaway Inc’s MidAmerican Energy Holdings and a contender to succeed Warren Buffett, warned that the U.S. housing market still has a ways to go before bottoming out.
…
“As we look at the economy, I have to be honest: we’re not seeing the green shoots,” Sokol said … “We think the official statistics of 10 to 12 months’ backlog is actually nearly twice that amount,” …
“There is an enormous shadow backlog of about-to-be foreclosed homes and of individuals who need to sell but have time, and there are already six (for sale) signs on their block,” he said.
… “It will be be mid-2011 before we see a balancing of the existing home sales market.” He defined “balanced” as a six-month backlog.”
RT – you sure are a Debbie Downer. Why the hostility towards a skate park and why do you assume it will be filled with profanity? Sounds like a good idea along with the new developments at the Omni. It’s not the end all and be all for the neighborhood but could be one piece of a larger puzzle. Thanks for posting the article AJ.
I don’t see the skate park as a very good neighbor. I also don’t see the visitors contributing much to the area economy, either.
ocean5 – I would prefer a skate park to be in someone else’s neighborhood., not mine. It is hardly a big positive except for the other areas around town that can now kicked the skaters out of their area and tell to go to the skate park. I would probably prefer a methadone clinic next door instead… To make it seem like it is the genesis of urban revitalization is just plain silly…ain’t convincing anyone.
RT — Yeah, it seems absurd to suggest there are thousands of people who want to pay anywhere from $300,000 up to millions of dollars for “luxury” Miami condos who would see a skate park for rowdy teenagers as an “amenity.” A green space, or some tennis courts, or something “adult” like that? Sure. But a skate park? I don’t see it.
Yeah I’d think having a skate park in your neighorhood would definately be more of a negative than a positive. The last thing I want are a bunch of hooligan skate punks having a reason to be in my backyard.
I went to the City of Miami Beach meeting that was held to discuss the 10 year old bond improvements that still haven’t been started. The local skate shop and skaters were asking for the city to consider a skate park. Not one non-skater citizen wanted a skate park.
Per Kevin Tomlinson’s database, unit 3001 at Continuum North sold for $3,225,000, or $1,230 per square foot. (Tomlinson’s database is still screwed up; it wrongly calculates the per-square-foot sales number based on the original list price, and not on the actual sale price.)
Again, the “1” line is best in that building, but seems like a very strong number given that there are 50-80 units available there. I wonder if these latest Cont. North sales were arms-length deals. Nothing would surprise me in this market.
A skate park? Why not more liquor stores and crack houses? Same affect on the neighborhood.
Joe – here is some price movement for you. This penthouse is amazing.
SOBE SALE
A tri-level penthouse at Continuum on South Beach — first listed for $25 million in ’07, and then reduced to $14.95 million last October, just sold — for $9.9 million. Cash. Buyer: Alex Birkenstock, a German bachelor. Seller: Howard Steinberg, a retired Wall Street lawyer who was general counsel to a Canadian bank and a Japanese securities firm.
There is talk that Birkenstock is a member of the famed footwear family. ”He’s not the shoe guy,” insists Khashy Eyn, a New York real estate broker who brought Birkenstock to the deal. “He’s a private hedge fund guy.”
According to a January ’09 article in Footwear News, a fellow named Alex Birkenstock was with Birkenstock USA, but ”stepped away from the operational business.” His two brothers ”still have active roles” in the company, the weekly publication says.
Birkenstock the condo buyer declined to comment. Steinberg, 47, and wife Lilly, 36, who have four children ages 4 to 17, bought the 7,374 square-foot condo on the 40th floor for $7 million in June ’03. Particulars: four bedrooms, private elevators, rooftop pool, high-tech audio-visual and spectacular views. Movie director Wes Craven shot scenes for the thriller Red Eye at the condo.
Steinberg’s Manhattan condo near Ground Zero is also on the market — for $5.97 million.
Players: Coldwell Banker’s Jill Hertzberg and Jill Eber, and Jamie Goff of Douglas Elliman Florida, for Steinberg. R3 International Realty’s Asher Abadi, along with Eyn and PhilipAskeroth of Platinum Properties in New York, for Birkenstock.
Eyn, who plans to open a Platinum office in South Beach this year, says the Continuum sale closed in 48 hours. “I’ve never seen such a quick deal.”
Thanks for that article; I saw it a couple of days ago. I’m not sure what to make of it. The original $25M list price probably was outlandish, but that seems like the best unit in Continuum South and it sold for less (per sq. foot) than some of the mid-floor Continuum North units have been selling for lately.
I’m sure there are a lot more people with $3 million to spend than $9 million, and I’m sure Continuum North is a more desirable building right now because it’s newer and has a better northern sight line, but it’s somewhat hard to believe nonetheless. I thought the next wave of sales in Cont. North would show a lot of downward movement, but it doesn’t seem to be happening (at least not yet).
This is not a rejoinder to the Skate Park naysayers but I inadvertently omitted giving credit to the original writer of the piece. It was penned by Adam Mizrahi of Urban City Architecture.
As far as the rants go;
1. Skaters are now everywhere. They are in Pace Park, Bayfront Park, Miami Beach, Streets, roads etc
2. They are not a bunch of rowdy teenagers. Just kids playing. Either you don’t have kids ot you never played outside in your life. If you are not from suburbs or small towns and live in a big city, kids have to make every possible use of meager space they can get to play.
3. Miami Downtown is very kid (pre teen and early teen) unfriendly. But with the number of couples with kids moving in to downtown, we have to think a little different. Contrary to popular belief these condos are not just for singles and young couples or retired people with out kids. Just in my building more than 25% flats have young children living in them.
4. The location they chose for the park is at the NE 1st ave and 19th street. Totally underused, totally neglected. That is even beyond the NE 2nd ave that people are not comfortable in venturing out to. This addition would make that area more lively and less scary. What else can you ask for?
5. Brickellites are now loading their dogs on to a car to bring to Pace Park so that they can run around and play with other dogs. I will have no problem with a mom or dad loading their kids too and dropping off at the skate park, run their dog in Pace and picking both of them up and going back to where ever they came from. This additional traffic and human activity to the West of Biscayne Blvd will be god sent and badly needed.
If you can’t see that, you do not have a vision.
I’m sold!!! Anyone wanna join a petition to turn Pace Park into a skate park and cemetary? LOL
AJ – I can’t explain why a resident with two HUGE great danes lives in Trump Towers in SIB…..unfair to the dogs and an urban environment is just not appropriate. I know tiny dogs and now large dogs too are a fashion accessory, but one of those mini-donkeys is smaller than some of the dogs I’ve seen people keep in their condos. It is just plain stupid. You can’t have it all in a condo and for people who want big dogs and a place for kids too, need to look elsewhere I am afraid. Its like the people who turn the jacuzzi into a wading pool for a half dozen toddlers…..ewwww. It just wasn’t made for that and is unhealthy for the under two crowd and of course for the adults that don’t want pee (and worse) in such a small amount of water. With respect to a skate park….kids need space that’s why most people with half a brain live in the burbs. A skate park and the culture that goes with it is dumb in some urban gothie sort of way…maybe that goth part makes it appropriate next to a cemetery, who knows. I love open spaces, green spaces, beautiful parks such as South Pointe, but don’t fool yourself, urban living is not something where one size fits all.
RT,
I agree with you totally regarding the mini donkeys. But pose your question to to all those families with little children in their flats living in Downtown and they will look at you as if you lost your mind.
For every one of you out there who thinks a kid has to be only raised in a suburb, there are more out there who think that raising a kid in Manhattan or Miami Downtown is perfectly acceptable or even good for the all round development of a kid.
There are thousands of families all over the big cities in America who are happily raising their kids in an urban/downtown setting. Actually this is not even a point of discussion in the rest of the World. Raising kids in an Urban setting is almost given in all the countries outside US. What makes us so different from every other human race? Just because we have more money and more space than the rest of the World? In anycase, it is all changing, we are slowly but surely becoming like the rest of the World. Can’t stop it.
At least a kid that grows up downtown is 10 times less likely to turn obese compared to the jump in the car for everything counterpart from the suburbs.
AJ – I agree on the obese to some extent if the urban kids actually walk…. With respect to what makes us different than the rest of the world….simple, we have a choice, most of the rest of the world can’t even dream of having a yard…..
The reason that anyone who purchases a condo on Brickell Av. needs to jump in their car and drive to Pace Park is because there is not even one park for either them or their dogs to to take a walk in. Hows that for good city planning. Oh yeah I forgot that Tibor Hollo is temporarily loaning the city of Miami his little parcel next to Jade for a TEMPORARY park while he waits for a rebound in the marketplace before he builds on that plot. Such a kind gesture of him dont u agree.
BTW – If you havent yet and want to see one of the most beautiful parks in Miami there is a park called Alice Wainright Park which sits just north of Viscaya on the other side of the entrance to the Rickenbacher causeway to Key Biscayne. It actually sits high up on a bluff with a stunning view of the bay. It has a small basketball court and plenty of picnic tables and barbecue pits scattered under some old growth trees and is actually larger than Pace Park. It is next door to Madonna and Sylvestor Stallones homes before they left Miami a few years back. Stallone before he left actually petitioned the city to have gates built on the entrance road to keep out the common folk. The nice thing is that not many people are aware that it is there and is very quiet with few visitors. The entrance is a road just before the entrance to Viscaya.
There was a skate park in the Chelsea area of Manhattan for at least 10 years. I’m not sure if its still being used but it never had the effect some of you are describing.
RT you said “I would prefer a skate park to be in someone else’s neighborhood., not mine.”
Since when do you live in the Pace Park area? I thought you lived on the beach?
Ocean5,
It is still there at the end of 23rd st on the Hudson River. Popular as it has always been.
Kramer,
Sorry, Villa Magna Park Plans have bit the dust. Here is the full story:
Plans to build a temporary park on Brickell’s last prime bayfront parcel are all but dead. The license agreement for the project was withdrawn during last week’s Miami commission meeting, marking a major setback in the quest for parks in the Brickell corridor. Developer Tibor Hollo, chairman and president of Florida East Coast Realty, and Commissioner Marc Sarnoff announced in December the two had reached a deal for the developer to lease the 2 acres at 1201 Brickell Bay Drive to the city for three years for $1 a year. Mr. Hollo planned a luxury hotel and condo development there but wanted to wait for a market rebound. Mr. Sarnoff said the developer caused plans to fall apart by bringing in an element that wasn’t part of original discussions. “They wanted to have substantial change made to the MUSP (major use special permit),” he said, adding he didn’t know what the exact change was. Miami requires major use special permits for large-scale developments. The city was to grant Mr. Hollo an extension to his permit in exchange for use of the land. Mr. Hollo denied the park project was halted because he requested a permit change. He added he still plans to develop a luxury hotel and condos there. He said the delays were caused by “the city’s legal department” and that his intentions were to ensure the license agreement’s language guarantees that the land returns to his ownership. “We want to make sure that the parcel cannot be taken from us because we’ve given it to the city for nothing,” he said. City Attorney Julie Bru said some issues surfaced that weren’t part of the original agreement between the parties but said she couldn’t give further details. The initial agreement for Villa Magna Park called for the city to build a passive park with a dog park and a children’s play area. Mr. Hollo would build pathways and install benches and the city would pay for landscaping and fencing. The developer would pay all ad valorem property taxes on the site during the lease, but the city would cover liability insurance and incur costs of any park-related lawsuits. Ms. Bru insisted her department wasn’t responsible for delay. “I do not believe there is anything my department is waiting on for further action on my behalf.” She said Mr. Hollo’s legal team is still reviewing lease documents and could propose further action. Mr. Hollo said he’s not calling off plans for the park, adding he just wants to protect his property. “We are willing to do this as long as the (city’s) legal department is willing to protect us,” he said. But Mr. Sarnoff said negotiations are over. He was excited about the prospect of giving Brickell a bayfront park, he said, but under the current situation it’s better to part ways with the developer. Villa Magna Park was to be the first park built under Mr. Sarnoff’s green spaces program, an effort to turn empty lots into parks through voluntary agreements with property owners. But he said he’s talking with other developers. Mr. Sarnoff said he planned to meet with his staff Tuesday afternoon to define a “more definite program” to “avoid setbacks” such as this.
Actual Link from:
http://miamitodaynews.com/news/090219/story5.shtml
Private buyer just purchased at Marina Blue for $225/sf. http://xr.com/marinablue2302
Oh and for the record it is an ocean view (all units are) and on a high floor. We’re getting near the bulk purchase price of $200/sf. Who was it that said you would NEVER EVER see prices anywhere near $200/sf? Wrong AGAIN.
Question to everyone: how do you properly vet a landlord. What was that website address you check for lis pendis?
Sure. Great deal if it happens. It is a short sale but “subject to lender approval”. Let us see if the lender approves or chucks the offer in the dust bin. Or if the bank does approve the following scenario might repeat:
Yesterday I was watching the ABC Nightline with Matin Basheer. In the Realty Check story, this young couple offered the bank approved price of $150,000 for a home in Phoenix. They got outbid by 10 other people or so. They told the interviewing journo that they were outbid on 8 previous properties by other investors. They are still trying to buy a decent home for the listed price and still no luck!
Sale went through genius
ocean5 – I wasn’t speaking that there was going to be a skate park in my neighborhood, rather that I would want it in someone else’s neighborhood.
I have no vision about Biscayne Blvd. getting any better after the second greatest real estate boom in Miami history.
Continuum is overpriced. Wealthy residents will get tired of SoBe and relocate to Overtown.
Brickell needs a major park so, so badly. The City of Miami needs to get working on buying land (whether it’s the Villa Magna site or the Brickell Citi Centre site) for a new, PERMANENT public park. I think the Brickell CitiCentre site would be perfect (at SE 8th St and Miami Ave, both plots of land left and right of Miami Ave). These two plots of land are a perfect size for a urban park, like Pace Park or South Pointe Park.
Brickell needs more park space!
The city, county and state paid close to 27 million for the Miami Circle site. When it’s all said and done should be close to 30 million. That’s enough park to last a lifetime. Two acres of prime limestone and two parking spaces.
That Miami circle is a joke. Miami is trying to preserve its “historic”(!!!) past. Give me a friggin break. They should have spent that money on a real park in Brickell like Bradley suggested.
I don’t believe the sale went through. Only 3 days ago , it was reported as a price drop of 26% subject to lender approval. That is on May 25th. There is no chance in hell that the bank approved an offer in 3 days and it got sold. If it did, there is some serious fraud in this transaction. Samir, can you throw some light on this as this seems to be your listing?
In other news, My school mate (Horace Mann Riverdale, NY) Archie Andrews is getting married to Veronica Lodge in August. I didn’t get an invite though 🙁 ..but poor Betty.
Yep AJ, somehow comic book characters aren’t really real….
I’ve had a few friends move to Brickell. All lured by new buildings with cheap rent. They are all moving back to south beach. Nothing to do over there and they are tired of driving back and forth to sobe.
Whats happening with the 10 Museum Park residents? Isn’t there a website banding together owners fed up with the developer?
Brickell can be good if you are a stylish or ultra chic Venezuelan or Colombian, have money to hang out in the Faux Euro (trash) lounge restaurants and can be part of their clique. If not good luck! I find Brickell boring me to tears unlike downtown, PW, PP & Midtown. I wish I could ask the Brickellite LaLa her opinion on this if she is still reading.
Brickell is Boring. That should be their catch phrase.
Brickell reminds me of what it must be like in Tampa, Orlando, or Jacksonville.
Anyone with money doesn’t give two shits about skate parks.
Brickell has tons more things to do than downtown, Midtown, PP or PW combined. I am living in PP now and still find myself hanging out at the Brickell Bars and Restaurants.
AJ # 276 what places in PP, PW or Midtown have you been to that are more appealing than the bars and restaurants in Brickell? Please advise as I am still looking for them.
southbeachsand-
Brickell needs just a few more gimmicky chain restaurants and then it will be like Orlando.
Lucas…. new post?
Business must be really good as you are not posting as frequently as before! Good for you
Bmw m3 – 2302 is still available. It has not sold yet.
Nice article about SOFI in today’s New York Times.
Aj does not live in Miami, he has no clue what it is like to live in Brickell.
One positive for Brickell is that it seems to not have the downtown riff raf. Any time I take the people mover across the bridge its a world of difference.
Samir,
Thanks for the clarification.
Angel,
I actually walk (against jcrimes advice) to the nightclub city in PW from PP and I love that convenience and NEVER encountered a single untoward incident. I avoid the parking hassles. Also there are new places are opening up in Midtown and OMNI too.
WRT resto lounges, Brickell has a few more over the other Downtown locations as of now. But that is all set to change in the next 2 years.
But that is only one piece of the puzzle. There is so much more to do in the downtown area with regard to daytime activities that Brickell cannot offer. I do not see a single thing to do in Brickell during daylight hours except work in one of those buildings. And as my life is very intricately linked with SOBE, I cannot ever live in Brickell. It is like a World away from SOBE. Downtown, PW, PP and Midtown are a hop skip and jump away from SOBE. Brickell is not. If you are a SOBE lover like me, you will not be happy in Brickell.
That makes more sense, thanks for clarification AJ. I agree that Brickell is more geared towards bars and restaurants (evening entertainment). PW has Space which is great but only on Saturdays, no real entertainment in PW during the week. For daytime activities I agree that PP has got an advantage over Brickell because of the park.
And not to mention the infinite possibilities of the Bayfront Park, its shopping, browsing, dining, marina, mini beach, free concerts etc.
….and people watching.
IRR
Define riff raff please.
Kramer, I have friends living in One Miami, Loft 2, 50 Biscayne, 900 etc. Wait till they hear some Brickellites (at least one uninformed one) equates them to riff raff, they will be laughing their arses off.
Angel,
Space is good because it is walking distance from our building. Word has it that the owner, Louis Puig, lives in our building too. I really like living at 900 B and the beach is close. Check out Vagabond at 30 NE 14th st on fridays.
shwin
I agree 100% Schwin. That was one of my main reasons for moving into 900. I have walked to and from Space a few times already without incident. I saw Puig in the elevator last week so he very well may have a unit in our building. I have only been to Vagabon a few times and liked it.
[…] Blog Hosting FT MY ERS BEACH » Archives » Sunny Isles Beach Condos –.. South Pointe Park in South Beach » Miami Condos For Sale and Rentals,.. Stylish South Beach Condo on 88 Townsend Ave – 1 Bedroom | SF One-Of-A-Kind.. Beautiful Beach […]
Does any body knows where to get these lamps? I want to get those but I dont know what brand they are or if they were costume made, pleaselet me know!
Renter Tom Says:
May 18th, 2009 at 11:22 pm
Word is some of these beach condo projects may get bought out and turned into timeshares….seriously. Jade Ocean apparently barely got under glass and don’t have enough $$$ to finish…..Fortune, the developer, is apparently going or is BK.
Renter Tom…a year and a half later and the above comment proves to be as incorrect as the day it was written.
Jade Ocean is finished and is one of the finest buildings in Florida. Jade Ocean is 60% sold out, and is closing 5-6 units per month at prices far exceeding $600 per square foot.
Fortune International, the developer, is not, nor has ever gone bankrupt. In fact, Fortune International has been selected by banks to manage the assets from other developers who have walked away without closing or completing the project. Most notably, Icon Brickell, but there are others and more to come.