Setai Penthouse Reduced to a Cool $19,999,999

What’s the maintenance on something like this??

Condo reports says that the monthly HOA fee is $13,053 and the month taxes would be $12,358!!!!

I wonder what type of amenities you get for $13k a month.

Who is Vince Shlomi??

Hey guys,
does anybody know anything about the Bayview Market? Will construction begin in 1Q 2010 as was promised (only couple weeks left), or the developer had chickened out?
I’m considering buying 3/3 condo in Edgewater area, but would feel much better about making a commitment if a shopping center – particularly a chain crocery store – was located within a walking distance.
I’m not in Miami at this point, so would appreciate your point of view.
Thanks much.

Euroman

Brickell is considered the best area of downtown ubran miami and is the most liveable area. You can walk to three diff publix supermarkets, etc.

So I would not sugguest buying in mid-town/edgewater area. Check out brickell, the prices of condos there are getting pretty low now and more effordable..

Carlos,
I’m not willing to wait 10-20 years.
But hey, thanks for nothing, anyway.

owneratinfinity,
thanks for suggestion,
I did look at Brickell, but couldn’t find anything new ( I prefer new construction ), above 30th floor, with unobstructed bay view, 2 parking spaces (OK, one is on 12 th level and is almost useless, but still), and storage, for $250/sq ft.
I don’t like foreclosures or short sales (unless pre-approved), so would rather buy from the developer for slightly more money.
Maybe I didn’t look well, but Brickell waterfront RE is either old, or too pricey, or both.
Appreciate your advice. Have a nice day.

Lara,
I might be wrong, but as a value proposition Edgewater seems to be a decent area. Sure, there are better places to live in Miami, but I’d have to pay 2-3-5 times more for a comparable square footage. Views on the other hand are unbeatable. Miami Beach is minutes away.
The be honest, I don’t even understand how any area with so much potential could be so poorly developed. Empy lots are everywhere. Strange.
Many people I talked to have told me that the whole stretch of land in between I-195 and I-395 just begs for the new construction.
Once that is underway, Miami will surely become an awesome city.
But right now all I need is some nearby major shopping facility.)

I have an apartment in Quantum on the Bay that is being rented now. The area is vibrant. New developments added a lot of young people in it. I agree it was poorly developed in the past. Also infrastructure is not being built overnight. It takes years. I think the views and location has a lot of potential for the future.

Euroman

look at isola in brickell key. It is not an ultra fancy building, but in your price point that is a good pick considering what you are looking for. I have to advise you though that you will not be able to find everything in your list for this price unless you start to compromise on a couple of things. Remember the number one aspect is location and even though they have made Pace Park more attractive and it does have great water views, the area is still a little funky and I would not buy there unless you have years to spend to see the neighborhood turn around, if it ever will.
Good luck!

Euroman,

I’m not sure if you’re deadset on living in the downtown area, but if you don’t mind venturing a few miles north, check out The Lexi in North Bay Village. I bought a short sale last year that has proven to be a sweetheart deal. I love the building. Big, spacious floorplans (1450 – 1750 sq. feet), amazing unobstructed views of biscayne bay, nice area, and low mainteance, at about $0.33/sq. foot.

The developer has about 12 units left, and there are several resales posted at the moment. The going rate right now is about $200-$240/ sq. foot, depeneding on the size, floor, etc. You can look up the building here on Lucases site under the North Bay Village tab, or do a google search to see the building website. If you have any specific questions, feel free to email me. Just click my name to bring up my email address.

One more thing about Edgewater. It is located next to the newly built Performing Arts Center. In any major city such location has a tremendous value. I know that the center is struggling financially but so does Metropolitan Opera. If Miami(with all its faults) is in fact a metropolis then the center should survive and evetualy turn into a cultural attraction for its residents and visitors. Also a lot depends on who runs the board there. It has to be at least one cultured intellectual person with taste yet not without a business sense.

Euroman,

I agree with what Carlos who said to you:
“The buildings in Pace Park are all very cheap buildings, mostly occupied by tenants who are destroying the properties. Real ghetto area. They try to sell the idea of luxuty living with bay views, but that is not what you get.
If you have extra cash, look somewhere else.
I live on the beach, but Brickell is a much safer pick if compared to Pace Park.
However, in your price point and with everything else you seem to want, you’d be lucky to find something in pace park”.

—> I have friend that lives in a condo that he owns on a very high floor in one of the new middle of road buildings on the Bay in front of Pace park (midtown). He is not happy with all the rough renters in the building.

—> Yesterday I was where in his condo and building for the first time in several months -it is really got beat up by all the renters and I can see that the building was built cheaply and the building has a bad smell in alot of the common areas.

—> I agree that brickell is a better area then Pace Park, and since the prices in brickell is getting cheaper all the time I think you should look again at the condos in brickell, too

“Sure, there are better places to live in Miami, but I’d have to pay 2-3-5 times more for a comparable square footage”

Edgewater is cheaper for a reason.

Next time you’re in Miami, drive over to Edgewater, park your car, and take a walk around the area at night.

Then do the same in Brickell or South Beach or Brickell Key or wherever else you are considering.

If you still don’t think its worth it to pay more elsewhere, than you’ll be fine in Edgewater. The fact that there isn’t even a grocery store nearby should tell you something though.

Lara, Carlos, owneratinfinity, Visionary,
thanks all of you guys, good to know your thoughts, will certainly consider all of it, I just hope you’ll never meet each other – or somebody will end up dead…)))

DJ,
thanks for suggesting Lexi, will take a look at it, as well. Cool idea.

Miami Sceptic,
lack of grocery store is certainly a huge drawback.

One thing mistifies me a bit, though – if renters destroy Edgewater properties, don’t they do the same to Brickell condos? It’s gotta be the same demographic, with the same incomes, since the rents are similar. And Brickell is just as full of renters. No? What am I missing?

One other thing. I’m not a developer, but why would anyone develop Midtown before developing Edgewater? I just don’t get it, but that may be a subject for another conversation.
Thanks again, everyone. Have a nice day.

Euroman,

You get cheaper people at Edgewater. Brickell is a higher end area if you get into the right buildings.
Tenants and low rents are a main problem in any building that offers rents in the low end.
North Bay Village has nice water views if you have a unit facing the water, but that is about it.
Very old Miami with dumpy buildings and major traffic near biscayne.

Euroman

You said,
One thing mistifies me a bit, though – if renters destroy Edgewater properties, don’t they do the same to Brickell condos? It’s gotta be the same demographic, with the same incomes, since the rents are similar. And Brickell is just as full of renters. No? What am I missing?

—> just FYI am an end-user not a realtor – my condo in brickell is my perm home, i do not own not other properties.

—> I agree with you 1000% that renters destoty all the buildings, regardless where they are located. And brickell is fulled with renters too.

–> However I do feel that the better the areas where the building is location will go up in value faster then in a not so nice aresa and when prices go up (someday – like 10 years from now) they will rent higher.

—-> when this happens the landlords will be able to ask more for their condos in the nicer areas and be more selective on who they rent their units to. Of course it will take 10 years or so for the rents to go up, however when the better renters start renting these buildings in better areas these better area buildings will have less bad renters that beat up and destory the building, then the buildings in a not so nice area. At least this is what I hope for.

—-> However I do not agree with you about the income levels. There is big different between brickel zip codes income levels and Edgewater/pace park/midtown zip codes income levels.

—-> Here are links to income, etc information for the 33131 and 33129 zip codes in brickell and the 33132 zip code which is a Edgewater/pace park/midtown zip code. These code zips for for the condo buildings near or on the bay.

http://www.city-data.com/zips/33131.html
http://www.city-data.com/zips/33129.html
http://www.city-data.com/zips/33132.html

—-> Brickell – 33131 zip code – median household income in 2008: $67,924
—-> Brickell – 33129 zip code – median household income in 2008: $63,803
—-> Edgewater/pace park/mt- 33132 – median household income in 2008: $27,713

—-> I know this 2008 data, however it close enough to show you that there is around a $40,000 per year on average lower income for the Edgewater/pace park/mt- zip code zip and the brickell zip codes.

—> plus I think there is also a higher level of education level in these brickell zip codes compared to the Edgewater/pace park/mt zip codes.

—> anyways, like I said before I sugguest you got to http://www.condoreports.com and research all the areas and pick the area and the building you like, for each building make a pros/cons list and go to each of the buildings for yourself, then work a deal for a condo you like in the building you like in the area you like for the price you like. That is what I need. You will notice that peolpe on this blog have diff opinions on the varouis areas so it’s best for you to go to the areas and buildings and make your own decsions for the your own needs and budget.

—> good luck

This blog used to be dominated by bears who would shred anyone that disagrees with them.
Now this blog is getting dominated by recent condo owners who would stoop to any low to discredit or sling mud on other peoples buildings or neighborhoods.

Shameful on both counts.

mishka said: “This blog used to be dominated by bears who would shred anyone that disagrees with them.”

– Bears? Really? That is sooo far from the truth. How about, instead of “bears”, people with a non-hyped realistic view of the market that were proven 100% correct? If anything, I had been and continue to be too bullish as I have erred by not being being bearish beyond the market realities. Moreover, do you have ANY clue regarding the percent of “foreclosure squatters” that are in homes that aren’t yet REO’s? The numbers are staggering as these people continue to live mortgage/rent/tax free. In a normal market they would have been out in 6 months or less, not 18 months. When you combine the “foreclosure squatters” with the artificially low mortgage rates and the government co-signing ALL the new mortgages, prices are still artificially too high. Reality will come to this market eventually…the rate of default among prime jumbos is gonna cause high end prices to fall more.

“Now this blog is getting dominated by recent condo owners who would stoop to any low to discredit or sling mud on other peoples buildings or neighborhoods. ” – – mishka

With all deference and respect to the folks that post here, if you think about it logically, the “sling[ing]” of which you speak should be expected and, frankly, is only going to increase. This is all part of the cycle – – painful and slow as it may be – – that will and must occur.

The issue here, as it has always been since the bottom fell out of the market is: What is the fair market value of these condos?

As we all know, between 2000 and 2007 hundreds of condos were built in South Florida. As we also know, the value of goods in a market is dependent on information. The initial value of these condo units were based on incomplete information as it was largely that provided by developers and their minions.

After all, why was unit X in development Y priced at $1.2 million? Because the developer said it was worth that and some investor bought into that valuation.

Now the developers and their clueless minions are history – – more or less. While the developers spun a good yarn while the housing market was strong, their valuations are unsustainable and unrealistic in the present market. Developer pricing did not reflect the true market value. Rather it reflected the impact of a market trend (the bubble effect) on consumer activity in that market.

So where does the market information underlying the present fair market value of these properties come from? The only true source: the consumer.

While you may view many of the posts as mud slinging, sniping, etc., I think a more enlightened view of such postings is that they are subjective evaluations of these condos by actual consumers. The market place – – real consumers – – is finally (FINALLY) beginning to take a good look at these developments and judge them on their merits. Many of the new developments – – names excluded – – are pretty ridiculous if you look at them through the lens of logic. And, more importantly, because this information is published on the internet, these comments are reaching a potential audience of consumers thereby affecting, hopefully in a beneficial way, their economic behavior.

For example, why would a rational consumer pay $X00,000.00 for a condo unit whose patio is a few feet from the metro rail and overlooks a utility power grid? Answer: they probably would not – – but they might consider purchasing it for less.

Another example: would a rational consumer pay $X00,000.00 for a condo unit in a building with no on-site parking? Answer: they probably would not – – but might consider purchasing it for less.

You see mud slinging.

I see consumers evaluating goods available for sale in the market place.

But that is just me. I could be way off.

scriv

“North Bay Village has nice water views if you have a unit facing the water, but that is about it”

True on the water views, but I think NBV has quite a bit to offer. Here are some pics that I took of my condo shortly after I bought it in 8/09. I’ve posted these before, so if you’ve already seen them, my appologies. These were taken shortly after I moved in, so the decor is a little sparse, but you’ll get the idea.

http://s985.photobucket.com/albums/ae338/djpooper/

I’m honestly not trying to talk up my hood or my building, just want give people an idea of what’s out there. I looked at condos all over miami….brickell, downtown, sobe, miami beach, etc. before finally settling on my place. I found that for the most part in North Bay Village, you get more sq. foot per dollar. I paid just over $200/sq. foot for my place, finnished with marble floors, window treatments, etc., etc. 1753 sq. foot under A/C plus an additional 675 sq. foot wraparound balcony, with 270 degree views of miami beach, sobe, port of miami, brickell, downtown, midtown, all the way up to north miami pretty much.

I also love the area….little traffic, good restaurants all around, a few minutes between biscayne and collins in either direction, plus it has a small community feel right in the middle of miami. Anyhow, those are some of things that sold me on the area. I actually have to give credit to my realtor because I wouldn’t have even thought to look here when I began my condo search.

owneratinfinity-
Euroman posed a question regarding tenant income/demographics of Edgewater v. Brickell and you post 2-yr old household income statistics from city-data.com that may or may not even include tenant incomes, since these demographic stats typically only account for homeowners and not necessarily renters. Plus how do you know where city-data retrieves and how it compiles their stats? I was looking for a source(s) and can’t find anything.

North Bay Village has a large elderly population so therefore the household income levels will naturally be lower. You cite the NBV income v. Brickell income like its proof that Brickell residents are in some way “better” than NBV residents when in fact the opposite may be true. Personally I’d rather live in NBV next-door to an old quiet Jewish guy with an annual income <$30,000 yr rather than live in Brickell next-door to an obnoxious, loud 25-yr old Argentinian importer/exporter.

My point is that zip code income stats are not a very good measure of whether renters in Edgewater or Brickell have a proclivity to "destoty all the buildings", as you say in your garbled English. More broadly, nor is it a very useful stat in choosing what neighborhood one wants to live in.

Condoswindler

“Midtown is definately not edgewater-and yes built in the old warehouse district-still surrounded by ghettos-just the old omni mall in a new location.’

I don’t want to start pissing people off because I’m not from Miami but I think people are confusing “downtown” “midtown” and “uptown with actual neighborhoods.

For Miami Downtown would be from Broadway up to 17th Terrace. With Brickell making up the financial district and the area north of the river making up the central business district (the hear of any downtown).

Then north of 17th Terrace up to I195 make up midtown. Downtown and midtown are both bordered by 95 on the west and Biscayne Bay to the east.

Edgewater is simply a neighborhood located in Midtown and only refers to the area west of Biscayne Boulevard.

The same way that Chelsea or Clinton are neighborhoods in Midtown Manhattan.

DJ, you have a very beautiful apartment. Enjoy it!

DJ

The brickell population at the time of the last census was tiny compared to South Beach (4700 vs 38,000). If you understand how median incomes are calculated you will understand why 33139 is so much lower than 33131. The incomes from the houses on Star Island are negated by the dozens of dumpy apartment complexes in South Beach housing the low income bar/club/waiter types.

The most recent census data is from 2000, the most recent IRS zip data is from 2006. Given the huge changes in downtown Miami in the last 5 years, I would say most of this demographic data is meaningless anyhow. Most of Brickell as we know it didn’t exist in 2005. Interesting to see how things look after the current census