Closings at Asia Have Begun
April 17, 2008 by Lucas Lechuga
I received word today that closings at Asia began late last week. The outside of the building looks spectacular. I fully expect that the common areas and units will be just as impressive, if not more so. I'm hoping to get inside to view Asia for myself within the next couple of weeks.
For those not familiar with Asia, it is a very high-end condo development located on the northern end of Brickell Key, along the Miami River. With just 123 residences, each with 12-foot ceilings and private elevators, Asia is now regarded as the most exclusive address on Brickell Key.
I think Asia is going to do a good job in closing out its units. I haven't received one phone call or email from a concerned contract holder of Asia. That's saying something. In fact, it's the only major new condo development where this is the case.
I really want to go inside and see the finishes of the common areas as well as the bathrooms of the units. From the catalog it looks like everything is going to be top notch, and the developer has a very good reputation above. The units were sold at very high prices though so lets see what happens. We cannot really compare it to Apogee since even if the building is up to par with Apogee it is in an area that has seen way too much development.
It must be erie to walk through that building. Kind of like viewing the estate of your recently deceased cousing (not by blood). Someone’s going to get it, it wont be you — but it looks really nice.
Watch for cobwebs. Can we get some people in here to clean this up. Dammit!
Definitely more jade looking than Jade. the condo needs a little more meat on it’s bones though. I’ll say even money a Cat 4 hurricane will tip it into the Bay… or at the very least cause an owner or 2 to shat their pants.
After a hurricane I’ll be driving around looking for the scrap pieces of copper that blew off the roof.
I heard people in town for Exxxotica at the M.B. convention center are already scouting this “Asia” building for some theme based movies.
Very fancy building–marketing must have been directed at select buyers–never heard of it or even noticed it with all the cranes in the area.
When I lived in One Miami, I lived directly across the river from Asia. As it went up (I left right before it was topped off), I couldn’t help but notice that it appeared even more tall and skinny than usual in these newer condos. The 12 ft ceilings add to the effect. The bottom line is, it would be tough to pay that much to look directly across the river at schmucks like me, who didn’t even bother with window treatments, and shamelessly capered about in all manner of behavior and dress…
BTW, what happened to the big news that you were alluding two a few weeks back, Lucas. You mentioned that you were on the cusp of something big?
I love this building. I saw the ph on the mls the other day and by the description it sounded amazing.
12ft ceilings? wow…
http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/18/markets/thebuzz/index.htm?postversion=2008041811
I’m glad weeks after I said the dollar had pretty much bottomed, others agree. That being said, the dollar and the stock market will bottom years before Florida real estate…
Renting at half the price of owning…and loving it…is a good thing.
I shorted FXE on wed…its an ETF that tracks the value of the Euro vs. the US Dollar. Good long term play if you are looking for the dollar to rebound.
What exactly is Asian about it? The sloped roof? lame…
Hey Lucas,
Check this out:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/04/18/bcnciti118.xml
I think I’d rather be in real estate than banking right now, no?
“What exactly is Asian about it? The sloped roof? lame…”
They could have named it Courvoisier Courts… Oh wait a sec, that’s taken already.
A must read. Let’s you get some insight into a set of morons that speculated in San Diego, Vegas & FL. The “Leverage RE till you drop” school of that led developers into thinking the market wanted 25,000 condo units when the “demand” was probably more from 2,500 speculators trying to flip 10 properties each.
Then:
http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/12/real_estate/investment_prop/tycoon_cromer/index.htm
Now:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20080323-0820-investors.html
Courvoisier Courts.
Worst. Name. Evererror.
Guys are there any stats for foreign buyers in the Miami market. I’ve heard there are many Euro, Middle East and Latin buyers coming into town to acquire properties. If true, in your opinions does this make up at least 20% of the buys?
p.s. GREAT BLOG!!
GL
California
Middle East buyers?!!! Why would anyone from the middle east buy here? They could purchase a condo in the prestine city of Dubai…btw Dubai is completely overbuilt as well, so they would probably get a good deal. Dubai is very upper class, clean and safe metropolis compared to Mijami. On a another note, Mijami is no where near the bottom. Some fools are still building!!! West Brickell, they are laying the foundation for a couple of more buildings. It’s not a great area, but neither is downtown Mijami.
GL – My understanding is that there have always been foreign buyers…what’s new? Sure they weak dollar helps but to what extent? Sales are way down and inventories are at historic highs. Foreign buyers are not a panacea to the Miami market. Overall foreign buyers are just a blip on the way down. A much larger issue is the availability to finance and refinance properties – that has tightened across the board and will NEVER return to what it was after the bank lost billions. Oh well, the slide to normal will be interesting.
Foreign buyers are in Miami and acquiring but they’re making all the same calculations that local or national buyers are making so they will not be the panacea. It’s only on a relative basis that Miami looks extremely cheap. London is supposedly starting to see the softening of real estate prices but good luck finding any new build flats for less than $1250/sq ft. More typical is $1,600 for West End, so Miami seems cheap at $250/ sq ft. or 20% of the London price. My friends who are buying as well plan to use their places for may six weeks out of the year for holiday and let their friends use it probably another six weeks out of the year; so we’re talking about $1,600 per week of total use(assuming 250k purchase; 150k mortgage at 7%). This is cheaper than any of the decent hotels in the major tourist cities of Europe, the Middle East, or S. Africa. It’s starting to make sense for people who either have money or access to financing and who like Miami.
Wow…just saw an email from Zilbert on continumm II. They are asking $1136/sq.ft for a 2 bdrm. I dont know if Continuum II is a luxury building or not, but to see a “hot deal” so soon after they started selling condos there is not a good sign.
————————————————–
Here are more details:
We’ve just introduced an amazing condo opportunity at South Beach’s brand-new Continuum 2. This north-east facing 2 bedroom condo offers an ocean view that will thrill you. At 1491 sqft (138.5 m2), this makes the perfect holiday home, plus you get a private elevator foyer for added privacy and security.
Some quick facts:
PRICE: $1,695,000
BEDS/BATHS: 2/2.5
FLOORPLAN: Click Here
MORE DETAILS: Click Here
If you’d like to visit this condo, to see it for yourself, contact Yoandra Pena at ypena@zilbert.com. We are offering appointments to visit this condo seven days a week, so you can visit it anytime you like!
Anybody have an idea why it seems the high end Fort Lauderdale condo market is taking a noticeably bigger dump than Miami?
I never paid too much attention to Lauderdale, but my impression was Miami and Lauderdale went up at the same rates with similar speculation and if anything, Miami has a bigger supply overhang.
Icon Brickell is going to have its problems, but Icon Las Olas… Oh my, now that’s a problem.
“Condo-hotels aren’t working for either condo owners or hotel-room renters”
Lesson for upcoming condo-hotel units like Canyon Ranch and a lesson in general how much folly is involved with making a condo purchase with the expectation of XYZ rental income to cover costs.
JL,
I haven’t checked the numbers on Fort Lauderdale versus Miami but my guess is that Miami has much higher demand. I don’t hear of many foreign buyers wanting to buy in Fort Lauderdale. Many domestic buyers love Fort Lauderdale, and some actually prefer it, but I’m pretty sure that Fort Lauderdale doesn’t get the demand from foreigners like Miami does.
Grant, interesting comment and keen observation, but your $1600 a week vacation cost doesn’t take into account:
a) The cost of putting down 100k
b) Taxes on a 250k condo = 5k a year
c) Maintenance of $500 per month
d) Special assessments to cover the shortfall in HOA
Lucas,
Great, ground breaking blog. Do you know anything about Nordica on Coral Way in the Roads?
JL
this is nothing new. the condo hotel concept has never worked in terms of being a profitable investment, i.e., a net gain in the end. notwithstanding this reality, the recent boom convinced people that condo hotels were a good investment because, in the interim, you could cover a good portion of your carry, and in the end, you would make your profit on appreciation. both assumptions were, like many things in this housing market, wrong.
Banks are getting more strict for loans for condo buyers. This will definately not help the market.
http://www.bostonherald.com/business/real_estate/view.bg?articleid=1088358&srvc=rss
As someone pointed out, if you are putting 20% down and all the additional expenses (HOA, insurance, taxes, and declining value), it does not make financial sense to buy. Your 20% downpayment invested wisely will make you money and you are liquid. So if something goes wrong (divorce, job loss, etc), you can get money quickly. With a condo, when you sell, you lose 6%.
Interesting article on BBC on miami:
Link:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7355289.stm
Some quotes:
“We recently bought a property that was $2.5m (£1.25m) at the height of the market for $800,000.”
Miami Herald “Tough times loom for condo owners seeking loans or re-fis” reports on AIG withdrawing from private mortgage insurance for condos. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are becoming much stricter. Lenders must warrant documentation.
Grant – the maths, as pointed out, doesn’t work by the time you include taxes, HOA, furnishing etc, no tax deductibility for foreigners etc. They just don’t come close. Your $250k condo also doesn’t compare in location to where anyone in their right mind wants to be in a hotel on holiday. And if they do, like the Mandarin Oriental, again the math doesn’t work at all.
Moreover your comparisons between London and Miami aren’t correct. First the prices you allude to in London aren’t right. West End – Mayfair, St James’s, Marylebone = $2000-$5000 a sq ft. Notting Hill, Kensington, Knightsbridge, St John’s Wood – $2000 – $4000 sq ft. Give or take 10% either way.
And comparing Downtown Miami/Brickell condos with Mayfair is wrong. Pick South of Fifth/Key Biscayne and at least you are dealing with the equivalent high end.
Or compare Mill Hill with Brickell…
Here’s a broad question since we reference foreigner’s buying homes in Miami a lot. Anybody know the normal lending standards in the UK, Canada, Spain, Venezuela, France are for their domestic markets and what type of terms they need now to come into the Miami market?
Just as the financing for the local Miami market has dried up from US banks lending to US residents, I understand the financing terms for foreigner’s buying into the US have gotten much much worse.
Is it the situation where a person in Europe is able to put down 20% or even no money down in European properties but has to put down 40% on a property in Miami? I understand the financing was always stricter for a Non-resident to purchase in Miami, but has it gotten comparatively much worse than local lending requirements for US residents, which have gotten quite harsh?
Everybody in the mortgage business I know still tells me there are a lot of “marginal people” wanting to buy now, but there is no point because the banks won’t make the loans. What’s clear now is how many speculators and marginal buyers were in the condo market propping up the prices. Back in the day, if you could not put 20% down, then there was several loan options readily available for you… but seriously folks, who here grew up in a household where your parent’s didn’t put at least 20% down? People in Miami are probably the most leveraged people you will ever meet; no savings, maxed out credit cards, no money down leases on Porsches, living month to month, and now you give them access to no money down liar loans and an ability to “work the system” to get multiple properties or play a “fraud“ game allowing easy equity out refis… What were the banks thinking?
It’s kind of funny really. During the boom, the banks were like cocaine dealers giving properties away with no money down and no documentation. During the bust the banks are acting like school teachers telling you whether can speak or not. Right now the banks want everybody to shut up and stay in their seats.
I don’t think the behavior of the banks is quite shocking. Frankly, their recent course of action is indicative of the general tug of war that you see in any company. When times are good, the profit guys (loan officers etc.) are at the forefront and the cost center guys (i.e., risk management) are in the background. Once things turn for the worse, the converse applies. there rarely is a happy medium.
As for foreign purchasers, my own anecdotal understanding is that banks are requiring 30% down from foreign purchasers. As for the new Fannie et al guidelines, I’m not sure how much that will affect many foreign purchasers. One, if they have to come up with 30%, then PMI isn’t an issue to begin with. Two, Fannie’s cap is around 450k, thus, unless you’re looking for something in this price range, you may then have to worry about the condo ass’n due diligence.
The article does raise a good point about new buildings – how can a new ass’n, especially one that is still in the developer’s hands, possibly make all the necessary disclosures? And how can you really tell if a unit was purchased by investors outside of knocking on doors and actually checking IDs?
Slow housing market speeds up scam
“… The U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of Florida announced a crackdown on mortgage fraud in September. It has indicted alleged scammers in Miami-Dade and Broward counties, and U.S. Attorney R. Alexander Acosta promised more charges in the coming months.
But investigators acknowledge that Johnson Cuffy remains the rare mortgage skimmer arrested. Mortgage fraud investigations move at a glacial pace, and Padich, the state fraud detective, admits many schemers get away with it because few cops have the time and expertise to find clues in phone-book-thick stacks of closing documents.
The irony is that a criminal who robs a bank with a gun can expect to be surrounded by a SWAT team in minutes. But, Padich said, a thief who robs a bank with a bogus appraisal and doctored closing documents can expect to get away with it.”
-end of story-
The appraise high and equity out scam is nothing new. What’s odd is how they decided to bust the person in the article. It’s like they went fishing with a net in large fish tank and that is what came out. It’s not close to the most egregious examples of this scam out there, but it’s nice to know they are catching some people. I thought it was worthwhile to post because they gave U.S. Attorney R. Alexander Acosta as a point man, and I remember there was talk a while back on this blog regarding who/how to report the mortgage fraud that happened or is ongoing.
Look here at the poor quality of 10 Museum Park. I can’t imagine buying into this place. Such shoddy construction.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=19846420&postcount=20
JL,
Guideliness for foreign nationals are pretty simple and pretty straight foward. 30 % down accross the aboard you have to able to show bank accounts with assets and at least 6 months of mortgage payments and that really about it. There is not much they can verify. The bulk of my business if Europeans and I believe it is still fairly easy to get a loan for them with the right paperwork, the only problem is there are obviously far less banks doing foreign nationals out there but there are still a couple out there and that really all you need.
As to the marginal buyers believe it or not for europeans its still a great deal to buy up whatever is available here. My clients love Brickell as they tell me you have lets say one bedrooms going for 150-250 even lower but even at 250K its about 170K in Euros for arguably the best residential area in Miami. For them its cost effective simply because they dont have much of a buying option in Europe for 170K euro and typically these are people that like to come over for a couple of months out of the year and it turns out to be a good deal for them.
bc, thanks for those pics of ten museum park. It is looking like such an antique already, it indeed belongs in a museum. How could they leave it in such a state of disrepair, especially the outside of the building, while charging 775k + for a unit there. It is also the first building to start closings on the park west. They have no excuse at all. Shame on the part of the developer.
BC, and thats at ground level, who knows how the higher levels of the tower are doing….
How many units does the developer at 10 Museum still have? Its been almost a year. Is the developer going bankrupt?
I’ve never seen a new building look so poor and in disrepair after such a short time.
I have recently been to park west and been inside Marina Blue. I am very unimpressed by the whole area. All the buildings there are unrealistically overpriced. TMP will be the first to lose its ridiculous high asking prices. MB will be next and 900 and marquis may hold out for a a little longer.
In Marina Blue, one of the bedroom of the 2 BR unit is stunning and the other bedroom is nothing but a glorified storage room with a bathroom. It is located next to the back corridor with windows near the cieling. I basically call all the 2 BR units there as 1 BR units with an attached storage. If you open the windows of the “storage space”, the noice was unbearable. I almost jumped out of my skin when a truck coming out of the port let out an earth shattering hoot. Multiply that by xxxx fold. All those buying a 2 BR unit in MB should bargain to get the second non bayfront BR sq. footage to be super heavily discounted before buying.
Convenient place to walk to AAA, Discotekka, Nocturnal, Space. But I cannot imagine living in those 4 buildings (900 is the least offender out of the 4). Marquis being literally on top of a major highway (395) and pretending to be high end!!
Any New Yorkers remember the 4 tall towers called “taino towers” built on I 95 (Cross Bronx)? I see no difference between Marquis and the taino towers.
None of these buildings have any kind of landscaping, setback or such. They are asking for 2020 prices in the year 2008. Stay away unless those prices hit below 350/sf in those 4 buildings. If not the investors who bought them or the developer with unsold units can just keep ’em. Thanks but No Thanks!
A bit off topic, but has anyone heard of this phenomena happening in Miami? Places like Vue and Waverly come to mind…
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/apr/19/na-forced-to-give-up-condos/
I totally agree with AJ, just because someone came up with a fancy name for an area like “park west” doesent make the spot any good. Theres four buildings kissing each others a**’s and they are in a heavy traffic area. Once those four buildings in about 3 blocks get filled (whenever that may be) I can’t possibly imagine what getting out in the morning will be like (just think one miami times ten, ouch). on top of all that they are still for asking top dollar. “park west” is not the best spot in downtown miami, not by a long shot.
I do agree with AJ on Park West issues with noise and general aesthetics…even if the market rebounds and the proposed hotel-office-retail developments immediately behind these condos proceed and bring more services/life to the area, residents will still always contend with pretty significant noise pollution from 95/395.
While this might not make any difference in a colder climate like New York or Chicago, in Miami it really drags down the appeal of pool decks and other outdoor spaces that will be used year-round and thus the long term desirability of these residences to discriminating, affluent purchasers. This was a big factor in the disappointment of many end users in Blue as well…totally surrounded by on/off ramps and what is basically a major highway. Who wants to sit by a pool and listen to 18-wheelers go roaring by below? It’s like being at some cheap road-side motel in middle America.
All negative market forces aside, I just don’t see how any of these Park West buildings can ever reach a popular consensus as “best in town” because the location is always going to be noisier/ grittier than Santa Maria, Asia, Grovener House, Apogee, Paramount Bay, etc.
By the way, regarding some of the earlier posts about Asia, the pic here really doesn’t do it justice. It’s a very classy and well done piece of architecture and since most of the floor-plans wrap around half of each floor, they also have good views back towards Key Biscayne as well as out towards the River/ Port of Miami
Kim,
Waverly has been converted in 2003 into condos, sold, sold again and sold again. Not sure how article is related.
Waverly was the first to convert here on West Ave, followed buy The Floridian, The Mirador, The FAILED Flamingo and The Mandrian.
Most conversions do not start closings until the meet a certain number. That conversion in Tampa sounds like they started closing early for cash flow. Hummm,, sounds like the Mandrian.
They claim 70% sold for the last year. When the Buyers contract it is with the understanding that the units will close prior to completion and the Developer will pay the Buyers cost (mortgage, tax and condo fees) until delivery. Probably closing the units prior to closing for working capital. Not sure why they are claiming 70% sold and far fewer have actually closed. It would concerned in this market knowing the developer had my money and I only had a deed for an unfinished building.
Isabel said what I wanted to say about the Hyperion Blue. Why the heck would anyone live between a split highway? Absolutely right about a cheap motel next to a highway anywhere in America. What gets me the most is that they have the b*lls to ask $500 and upwards for a SF in that building!! No matter what the amenities are.
Any one paying more than $300/SF in the 12 line or more than $250/SF in any other line in Blue is a FOOL…at least in the next 3 years.
I went to look at ASIA and boy, what a mind blowing building! It is stunning. Did not go inside but I am sure I wont be disappointed. That is a building worth living in I suppose.
On the darker side, I could not even get to look at Icon Brickell without getting a headache. That building looks so claustrophobic with everyone looking into everyone elses living room. They are just 3 vertical boxes. Sorry, never buy because of a name like Related, Trump or Tibor etc. Go by the individual building and its merits. I have seen the biggest names make some of the worst buildings.
And finally, when Met comes up, people living in EPIC will be reaching out from their balconies and shaking hands with them. What a pity! Even in New York, we do not have buildings so cramped together (Sides maybe, but not the fronts of the building)
I don’t think Brickell Key gets enough kudos on this site. I moved to Brickell Key in 1997, and I have to say its the nicest part of Downtown if not Miami.
On the bright side, I really appreciate that we have the Metro Mover. It is such a joy and a pleasure and it is FREE! Which other city has given its citizens something free. Everyone from NY to London are trying to fleece its citizens. Miami metro mover should a matter of pride for all of us. Also the city should scrap pork projects with corruption possibilities such as museum park project etc and put that money to extend the Brickell loop to 26th st ( Rickenbacker Causeway entrance), Omni Loop to Midtown Miami and add another loop to South Beach till 5th and Alton with a connection to the 25 cent SOBE local bus. That would be the ultimate gift to Miamians from the city. Hope that happens one day along with the Port tunnel project.
Agree with the comments above. Alot fo these building are sexy outside but not very good inside and rather small in particular Marina Blue and Ten Museum (except the east side 2 story lofts.)
It’s really small and a 2bd might as well be a 1 with storage room.
Nice curb appeal but hasn’t delivered.
Judjing from the pics on 10 Museum it’s an awful shame the way the upkeep on that building is. There’s no excuse to have all sorts of unpainted patchwork and cracking on a new building it’s been just about a year since closing and nothing has changed…there’s no retail component, Le Praire Spa, or the kicker signature Micheal Caponni Lounge in the building with acess to the hottest nightclubs. What a marketing joke that was.
All those buildings will take a tumble look at the drops on 10 museum already, the rest will follow the same fate.
Antonio, I totally agree with you. Brickell key is absolutely gorgeous. But personally I like some action around me. Like life. It is nice to watch People playing ball or jogging or just going by their life. Brickell Key looks so exclusive and sterilized, it is not for me. It is beautiful though. If you like that kind of exclusive living, it will be great to live there.