Top 5 Miami Distressed Condo Sales Closed in March 2009
April 9, 2009 by Lucas Lechuga
- The Mark on Brickell - unit 2702 - 3 bedroom/2 bath (1,470 square feet) - This unit sold for $251,000, or $171 per square foot, on March 20, 2009. Short Sale
- Brickell on the River - unit 3305 - 1 bedroom/1 bath (757 square feet) - This unit sold for $125,000, or $165 per square foot, on March 17, 2009. Foreclosure
- Vue at Brickell - unit 812 - 1 bedroom/1.5 bath (860 square feet) - This unit sold for $90,000, or $105 per square foot, on March 9, 2009. Foreclosure
- Neo Vertika - unit 1525 - 0 bedroom/1 bath (638 square feet) - This unit sold for $98,500 or $154 per square foot, on March 19, 2009. Foreclosure
- Uptown Lofts - unit 1003 - 1 bedroom/2 bath (1,065 square feet) - This unit sold for $100,000, or $94 per square foot, on March 19, 2009. Foreclosure
Runner-up - 1800 Biscayne Plaza - unit 1107 - 3 bedroom/2 bath (1,318 square feet) - This unit sold for $200,000, or $152 per square foot, on March 11, 2009. Short Sale
prices are still too high, but they’re getting there. 1800 Club needs to hit 7
$75/sf or less
People who don’t know the difference between 1800 Club and 1800 Biscayne should keep their mouths shut, there is a good chance they might look muy estupido.
Oh, I know the difference: 1800 Club is the one where murders take palce right outside your door. I was just makings general comment.
These units might look like deals, but if the death spiral has started the new owners maintenance fees will be averaging $1000 a month for a one bedroom. We are going to start to see cash buyers with liens very shortly. Cash buyers cannot walk away and are in even worse shape than the people with loans who put very little down.
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/04/09/am_florida_condos
Florida condos falling on blacklist
(avb), Nope. Ignorance still shows. Same cheesy spelling mistakes, typos, grammatical errors and lack of basic geographic knowledge of Miami. On the bright side, makes for some entertaining reading and good for a loud guffaw.
I would have normally ignored your post but there might be a few out of towners who might be misguided by your own confusing the two distinctly different 1800’s. That is why I had to jump in to clarify. Now go ahead and vomit any amount of crap about 18 or Pace Park, I couldn’t care less. Unless you factually misrepresent something, I will ignore all your posts.
That you for calling me stupid and ignorant. However I’m confused. Are you satying that a man wasn’t killed in Pace Park this week, literally hundreds of feet away from 1800 club?
Wild Bill – I agree. Cash buyers / those without mortgages have a higher risk since they can’t game the mortgage holders for a short sale, etc. Those that may have looked “smart” by being a cash buyer at a discount in one of these newer buildings are now stuck even if it was a long term ownership situation since the HOA can quickly turn into a nightmare as owners go into default one by one…..a literal “death by a thousand cuts”. I’ve watched several buildings just sit there with little activity. The condo developer risk is being transfered to these few owners….and in a bad real estate market, condo developer risk is enormous….far worse than home builder or land developer risk. One example is Trump Towers in Sunny Isles Beach……another appears to be Jade Beach but I’d need more concrete and recent numbers to make a prediction with that building. All of this makes it clear that renting has the least risks in these new buildings since you can literally walk away anytime if things go bad such as pool closings, poor maintenance, safety issues (like 1800 with the murder outside). I was thinking maybe AJ could form an “HOA murder committee” for 1800 to protect the buildings unit values. AJ could head it up with patrols and all since he just loves the fabulous Pace Park and loves to walk…..it would give him more time to soak in those amazing views too!
Good, fair article (albeit they don’t address the shadow inventory completely):
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2009-04-09-vacanthomes_N.htm
On a related note, I just refinanced my house and was shocked by the entire process:
1. I have good equity, but I barely qualified for the lower interest rates. I got in @ 4.25% with 2.5 points for 30 yr fixed (nationwide lendders). I had to pay the points out of my own pocket (not rolled into loan) because I needed to maintain a certain LTE ration. I bought in 2004.
2. Many of my neighbors are now underwater even though they put in 20% down. The banks are assessing the value of our units about 15% below the last sale price (Nov 2008). These neighbors cannot refi at low rates due to the under water status of their loans.
3. I was _very_ surprised at how few banks were willing to give me a loan. I have good income/credit, but very few of them were willing to give me a loan below 5.5% for 30 yr fixed. The word “Miami” is toxic to many banks.
4. ALL OF THEM asked me if my home was a condo or Single Family Home (SFM). I live in a SFM, but asked what the rates would be for a condo and was told that if lived in a condo, i would not be able to refi thru them. This is sad situation as people who need the low interest rates the most are not able to take advantage.
Lucas…. anyway you can post a summary of the 47 distressed sales?
It would be interesting to see the range at which thee units are being sold and also if there are units in other buildings.
Bottom line, if you look at your 6 units (inlcuding the runner up), 4 out of 6 are small units under $125k, which tends to say that this is not about price per square foot but total unit price. My guess is that this trend continues in the complete list of the 47 units
Isn’t the HOA at Uptown around $800? I’ve been there checking some units but found the HOA an absurd for such area and amenities.
seems like everyone is saying that housig is bottoming……by june -july some think early 2010
do you believe this and vis a vie miami what do you think /???
This is a great article that talks about the correlation between Latin America and Miami. As the broader Latin America economy further deteriorates (6 to 9 months behind the US) Latin Americans could “Fire Sale” their condos in Miami to get some liquidity, adding more bricks to the mess we are in. My Opinion, no recovery in 2010, this thing will drag for years.
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202429758081&South_Florida_Braces_for_Ripple_Effect_as_Recession_Hits_Latin_America
Tanio Amadeus – So much for foreign buyers saving the Miami housing market! Same goes for eastern Europe! Interesting will be how many abondaned homes, condos, boats and cars will come out of this….
Huge shadow inventory. I have to give the developers in Miami some credit for being able to prop up their buildings. 1800 Murder Club is doing a good job. Once these bank foreclosures hit the market all bets are off. Massive price adjustments. More underwater owners. More delinquent owners. More cash buyers stuck paying the tab.
“We believe there are in the neighborhood of 600,000 properties nationwide that banks have repossessed but not put on the market,”
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/04/08/MNL516UG90.DTL&
Let’s not forget delinquent property taxes. Miami is full of them. Government is keeping this quiet because they have to raise property taxes, but the don’t want to scare away new buyers.
Can someone elaborate on Trump Tower in Sunny Isles issues mentioned above.
WB, yes that is true the amount of REO foreclosures reported by realty trac, for example, compared with the amount for sale on the MLS for a given region doesn’t come close to matching. For whatever reason, REO’s are being held back by banks. Why?
carbon black cab,
Thanks for that very insightful post. Posts like that make this site worth checking out even with the garbage spewed by some others.
I am actually surprised that you paid 2.5 points on the loan. That must have hurt. But 4.25% is an amazing rate if you are in it for the long term. It is like free money as the inflation is very soon going to be way over your interest rate. As soon as the recovery begins later this year, the biggest worry should be the runaway inflation.
Unfortunately I cant refi as stated income has become non existent even though I have over 800 FICO score and more than 20% equity. So I am stuck with the 6.25% until I decide to pay off my loan with the future worthless dollars in a few years.
Is there any truth to the matter…that 1800 CLUB was finished with CHINESE DRYWALL???? This is a great concern to me now.Any info. would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
Speaking of, does anyone know which if any buildings in Miami that are known to use Chinese Drywall?
I din’t know of specific buildings…..but I do know that 60,000 condo units and houses in Southern Florida used Chinese Drywall since 2006.Does anybody know the SIDE EFFECTS of Chinese Drywall??????
AJ
come on, you know that simple simon and avb are trolls trying to get a rise out of you.
AJ,
be careful about your inflation predictions. it may come, but not as soon as you think. for one, inflation will not occur will wage deflation occurs. this is happening in force right now, either through unemployment or straight out wage feeze and decrease. and inflation will not occur while we are in a recession (disregard the 70’s when inflation caused the recession, not the case here). until credit frees up and more money than is needed enters the economy (and not just to shore up losses on balance sheets), we will not have inflation. unless we continue to print $1 trillion a month, in which case we have hyperinflation, which is a whole different animal. in that case we are all screwed, no matter how you position yourself.
back to the blog topic, i think the mark sale is quite good. a 3 bedroom for $250k? this will be a nice long term holding, assuming the hoa does not kill the owner. i understand hoa is quite steep in the mark. but the location of the building is great. the price for this unit is much closer to the bottom than the top, imho.
Lucas all you new updates are amazing thank you this is an amazing site. Joe
Any info on deals in SOBE or Miami Beach area?
Thanks Joe! I was wondering when someone would say something. I’m really happy with how the new property search came out. A new tool will be added within the next couple of days to the property search page which will allow people to draw shapes on the map to plot a specific area that they want to search. The few minor bugs should be worked out within the next day or two as well.
LUCAS its truely amazing .You put a lot of time and effort into this blog.I hope everyone else that reads it appreciates it as much as I do.I hope it is rewarding for you as well THANK YOU AGAIN. joe
Earl,
I know that! I am not getting agitated, instead I am having fun. After I penned #22, I was LMFAO. It was just a wise crack, not a reply to the trolls post.
gables,
I honestly don’t know what will happen to the dollar. Just a guess. The World has become very unpredictable.
I can’t refi at a lower rate. So my only option is to pay off my loan in the future with gold backed SDR. If not I will end up having to pay back the full interest on my loan. I hate paying interest. So I have to get out of my debt faster if the dollar does not crash.
carbonblackcab – Great interest rate esp if going to hold that property for a long time. One question, what would your interest rate be without the points…..the reason I ask is points are up front costs that if you sell say within 5 years, you don’t recoup the lower interest rate savings…. there is probably a calculator online somewhere that calculates this stuff to determine the break even holding time. Obviously, if you intend on holding for the term of the loan, paying points up front should make sense….
….or maybe they should rename Margaret Pace Park to Margaret Pace Park and Cemetary?????
Two more bank failures this Friday……one of which no one wanted to buy! Ouch.
Lucas,
Nice search features. Couple of comments:
When listing has more than one pic clicking on pics does not maximize them.
Also, recent listing link did not work.
Interesting how the Uptown Lofts unit went at $94/SF. For perspective, look at this post from June 2007. Back then (and I don’t mean to pick on him, because I think he does a great job with this blog) Lucas was suggesting that a foreclosure at $250/sf was a great deal. http://www.miamicondoinvestments.com/2007/06/07/uptown-lofts-pre-foreclosure-under-275-per-square-foot-with-great-bay-view/
Just pointing out that prices can always go lower. After the Japan real estate bubble ended in the early 90’s, real estate bottomed out at 20% of peak value. Not saying the same will happen in Florida, but I certainly think it’s possible and definitely don’t think it’s time to buy yet.
To the above question about why banks are delaying foreclosure and the sale of their REO, it’s because banks as a whole are behind the curve. If you think about it, the executives at these banks who are making decisions on when to sell are the same executives who bought into the real estate story during the boom time. Just like the investment banks who refuse to let their structured securities trade at “irrational” prices, the commercial banks refuse to sell their real estate at “irrational prices.” Of course, 6 to 12 months from now, the banks will wish they took today’s irrational price just like they wish they took the irrational prices from a year ago. The entire financial system is literally “banking” on things getting better soon.
Renter Tom,
First of all, hilarious idea about the 1800 Club HOA Murder Committee. On a similar note, I wonder if the owners of all those new condos next to Bicentennial and the AA arena have ever thought of secretly financing a large bus to take some of the homeless population on long distance one way trips to West Palm Beach. Or wherever’s far enough that they’d have a tough time making their way back. (Not suggesting they do that, btw.)
I do have a serious question though. Can you elaborate on the HOA risk you were talking about above? For example, in a condo where a majority of tenants stop paying their maintenance fees, will those unpaid fees be added up and billed pro rata to the rest of the tenants who still are current in the interest of keeping the building functioning?
JoeBob – I think the solvent tenants have no choice but to pony up the $$$ to make up for the delinquent owners…..the building HAS to have insurance otherwise NO ONE would buy a unit in the building going forward. Moreover, other needs must be met such as water and sewer….think of that one townhome community in Broward (per a previous post about the news story) with only 25% paying that had its water turned OFF because the entire community is on one master water meter (not unusual). Why would ANYONE buy in such a community knowing that their dues would in effect be 4x’s higher then what it should because 75% don’t pay…AND you can’t really deny the delinquent owners from using all of the community amenities…. Once the HOA delinquencies start to pile up, sales come to a complete STOP….esp now with the new Fannie lending standards. It is a DISASTER. I know one building where they file if behind two months in HOA fees….the HOA HAS to be that vigilant otherwise it is a disaster. ALL cash buyers want NOTHING to do with an HOA in such distress either unless they can buy up a very significant % of units to control or otherwise fill the gap in the HOA fees…..but such bulk buying would have to happen a huge discount and probably would never work in a situation other than where there is one seller of the units…..dealing with 50 or 200 individual unit owners would probably be too unwieldily for any vulture buyer. The unit owner in a building with significant HOA delinquencies without a mortgage stands to lose the most since he can’t share the loss with the mortgage holder via a short sale for example. There are very few things someone can do to get out of such a situation……the insurance and utilities need to be paid just to allow for units to resell….even if there aren’t any buyers at any price….and to be able to actually occupy a unit……. a disaster…………….. I’m sure more horror stories are to come. I know one person I have met bought at $240K and a similar unit sold for $110K and most are still paying the HOA (so could be a lot worse!), same with another $320K unit now at $70K and 50% of owners stopped paying HOA so it may go to near zero. Think of ICON, 1% of the owner can’t pay for the entire building….and the developer can’t keep paying forever either!
[…] Top 5 Miami Distressed Condo Sales Closed in March 2009, Lucas Lechuga […]
Lucas,
Just wanted to reiterate the great job you are doing with the site. I have not explored all the latest updates, but the site has certainly evolved into a favorite destination for Miami condos over the past couple of years. I am sure you are reaping the rewards for your efforts. Thanks for the efforts!
AJ,
I agree with you the uncertainty with the dollar in the future. with probable outcomes resulting in deflation, inflation and hyperinflation, this does make for a very skittish market place. a factor contributing to the slow recovery, if we do see one in the near term.
just a thought regarding inflating your way out of debt. interest rates are being held artificially low by the government, and this has the effect of reducing the monthly payments on refi while keeping principal constant. at some point, we will no longer be able to keep interest rates low (perhaps when inflation returns as you point out). as interest rates rise, principal (sale price) must fall to keep properties affordable.
the battle will be common inflation versus continued deflation of the real estate asset-who will win? my bet is RE will continue to deflate (the magnitude of inflation on daily items cannot offset the magnitude of RE price changes). inflation in RE cannot occur unless easy money is again introduced into the RE marketplace. this will not happen again in the near term. it just seems to me to be a risky proposition to think you can inflate your way out of RE debt, at least for the average joe. you can do it in an alternative fashion, through gold, but then you need cash to take advantage of the inflation. thus you really didnt need the debt to begin with. most folks are not in this position. cash buyers are thus better off investing in gold than RE for inflation purposes, eliminating many of the supposed condo buyers on the sidelines.
I would like to check out the listings on Lucas’s site here .Can anybody tell me what the BEST line in a 2/2 might be in 1800 Club??I prefer a higher floor with a large balcony/terrace.Any help is appreciated.
RenterTom: My rate without points would have been 5.2%. The current rate on my mortgage is 5.3 % (7 yr arm resetting in 2011). Rates are going to be a lot higher in 2011 and I am not taking chances.
I have no plans of selling my house. I want to pay it off in next 7-10 years and then buy a water view condo.
I am paying points now as an insurance policy for any changes in my life that would prevent me from paying off the loan in 7-10 years. Besides, 7300 bucks (2.5 points) is not a large sum of money. 🙂
carbonblackcab – Good to hear. Thanks for the info!
gables – You’re right. The cash buying opportunities will be best in high interest rate environments which push down the asset price of homes/condos. Keeping interest rates artificially low now will cause people to over pay for the home/condo now and as interest rates increase over the next 5 years or so, other costs will increase but homes/condos prices will decrease as people buy homes/condos mostly on payments. Today’s buyers will be buying an asset that won’t keep pace with inflation…..Sooooooooo you can inflate your way out of overpaying for a home/condo today! Again, you can’t unring the bell on your purchase price….the purchase price is one of the two most important decisions with regard to real estate since you make money when you buy real estate, not when you sell it….. that it, the purchase decision is two fold (1) do I want to participate in the real estate market at this time and (2) what price do I pay for the real estate…….since real estate is a very illiquid asset where you are utterly helpless regarding the sale price. Be a wise buyer since most have little control when they go to sell.
Sooooooooo you CAN’T inflate your way out of overpaying for a home/condo today!
– Sorry for the typo….should be “can’t”
http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2009/04/06/daily61.html?surround=lfn
FORECLOSURES IN S FLA HIGHER THIS YEAR THAN LAST ??WOE THE PROBLEM IS GETTING WORSE
WE WILL GET A LOT OF OBAMA TYPE HYPE ABOUT STABILITY IN HOUSING, AND INVESTORS SCOOPING UP HOUSING AT BARGAIN PRICES BUT PEOPLE ARE VIEWING HOUSING IN A MUCH DIFFERENT WAY NOW……….THEY ARE NOT VIEWING IT AS AN ASSET THAT WILL INCREASE IN VALUE, EVEN OVER TIME….SO THEY WILL JUST RENT!!!!WHICH MEANS EVEN FURTHER REDUCTIONS, (FLORIDA) ESPECIALY IN AVERAGE LOCATIONS///////WHO GOT KILLED AT 1800 WHAT WAS THE STORY
http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2009/04/06/daily61.html?surround=lfn
I don’t think anyone answered the question: Did any of these downtown condos use Chinese drywall??
ANYBODY KNOW WHY OBAMA IS SENDING WARSHIPS AND DESTROYERS TO
DEAL WITH A FEW UNDER FED PIRATES IN A LIFE BOAT
CANT MADONNA OR ANGELINA JUST ADOPT THE SOMALIANS
AND I HEARD SOMETHING ABOUT A PLAN TO LET LOWER INCOME PEOPLE
BUY FORECLOSED HOMES FOR A FEW SHEKELS INSTEAD OF TEARING DOWN
THE PLACES ???
ANYBODY WANT SHAQ’S PLACE ON STAR ISLAND ????
What part of Florida has the best deals on condos?
BEST DEALS MAY BE IN SW FLORIDA BUT IT ALL DEPENDS WHERE YOU WANT TO LIVE DOESN’T IT /I HAVE A 65 THOUSAND DOLLAR TOWNHOUSE IN HOMESTEAD BUT DO I WANT TO LIVE IN HOMESTEAD ??/
I have been told that 1800 Club is having some killer specials.
thank you so much for this awe-inspiring website me and my kin loved this depicted object and insight